- From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:42:54 +0100
- To: public-rdf-comments <public-rdf-comments@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <CFA9E003-BC0B-4B1F-AC72-7EAC0C2BA16B@bblfish.net>
It's a pitty, given the huge amount of time the discussion on http-range-14 has taken up that this an issue of interaction with SPARQL would stand in the way of thinking about this more clearly. On 20 Nov 2013, at 17:25, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote: > > On 18 Nov 2013, at 23:19, Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org> wrote: > >> On Nov 2, I sent the attached message as a formal working group >> response to a comment you sent to the RDF comments WG. Please review >> the attached messgae and reply with the Subject prefixed with >> "[RESOLVED]" if it addresses your comment. >> >> -- >> -ericP >> >> office: +1.617.599.3509 >> mobile: +33.6.80.80.35.59 >> >> (eric@w3.org) >> Feel free to forward this message to any list for any purpose other than >> email address distribution. >> >> There are subtle nuances encoded in font variation and clever layout >> which can only be seen by printing this message on high-clay paper. >> From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: Problem with Hash based Linked Data URIs >> Date: 2 November 2013 14:27:28 CET >> To: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> >> Cc: Mo McRoberts <Mo.McRoberts@bbc.co.uk>, Adrian Gschwend <ktk@netlabs.org>, "public-webid@w3.org Group" <public-webid@w3.org>, "public-rdf-comments@w3.org" <public-rdf-comments@w3.org> >> >> >> * Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> [2013-02-16 16:27+0100] >>> >>> On 16 Feb 2013, at 16:04, Mo McRoberts <Mo.McRoberts@bbc.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> As should be blindingly obvious to anybody who's worked with them, hash-based URIs are principally useful where a document describes a _single_ entity within its sphere of reference (though the nature of triples and many ontologies is that there may well be parts of descriptions of other things). >>>> >>>> Ontologies/vocabs are a one solid case where it's really not a good idea to use them because it's hard to split them up into separately-served resources later. >>> >>> I don' think that quite locates the problem at the right place. >>> It would be completely feasible to have one #uri per vocabulary element, each at >>> a different location. For example all of DBPedias resource URIs could just return >>> the content inside so one could have >>> >>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Whiskey#x >>> >>> defined by >>> >>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Whiskey >>> >>> That would have the advantage of required half the requests on DBPedia to get >>> the information. The only problem I see with that is a syntactic one. I sent >>> this to the WebArch and RDF-Comments group as a mail and RDF group in November, >>> but got no answer there yet >>> >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2012Nov/0009.html >>> >>> I suppose one would need to propose a solution to the problem. >>> Something allong the lines of requesting a new @prefix in Turtle >>> so that one could write: >>> >>> @pre db: ("http://dbpedia.org/resource/" _ "#x") >>> >>> This would allow one then to have >>> >>> :j :likes db:Whiskey . >>> >>> which would be equivalent to >>> >>> :j :likes <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Whiskey#x> . >> >> >> The RDF Working Group has considered the utility of your proposal >> against the added complexity stemming from the new directive. We feel >> it is better to stay compatible with SPARQL and let users take >> advantage of the new PN_LOCAL_ESCą feature permitting one to embed '#' >> in a localhost name after an escape character, e.g. db.Whiskey\#x . >> (You referred to this feature in your followup message.) >> >> If you are satisfied with this response, please reply with a Subject: >> starting with "[RESOLVED]". >> >> >>>> (Ironically, as a redirecting service, if the PURL for GR had been http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1/ instead of http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#, it could have redirected to either a hash-based or a hash-less URI — there's no benefit to hash-based URIs if you're always inserting a redirect _anyway_). >>> >>> My guess is that you don't need these redirects in fact. But anyway, as far as WebID >>> goes the point is pretty moot, since as you point out below: >>> >>>> >>>> On the other hand in the case of "this is the document which describes me" or "this is the document which describes this book", it makes a lot of sense to use hash-based URIs because that document has a notion of a primary topic while anything else described is a supporting adjunct. Even if it's aggregated into a dataset, the subject used in that dataset would be a URI which resolves to that one-thing document URI. >>>> >>>> M. >>>> >>>> On Sat 2013-Feb-16, at 14:33, Adrian Gschwend <ktk@netlabs.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 16.02.13 12:10, Melvin Carvalho wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Kingsley, just trying to understand the problem better. When I >>>>>> click, http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#BusinessEntity it takes me to >>>>>> the section of the GR vocab that is related to BusinessEntity (via html >>>>>> anchors). What should it be doing? >>>>> >>>>> That's only because you requested it from a web browser, if you get that >>>>> as RDF (via rapper for example) it will make a request to >>>>> http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1 and instead of giving you the answer to >>>>> what you really want to know (#BusinessEntity) it downloads the whole >>>>> ontology which according to rapper is 1834 triples. Everything after the >>>>> # is handled client side and does not even get through the webserver. >>>>> >>>>> This is not handy at all when you start to write code, you get way more >>>>> than you wanted to know and it gets harder to implement local caching >>>>> for example. Did that done that, really no fun to implement properly >>>>> with hash based URIs. >>>>> >>>>> So I'm really no fan of hash based URIs either, especially on bigger >>>>> ontologies/datasets. >>>>> >>>>> cu >>>>> >>>>> Adrian >>>>> -- >>>>> Adrian Gschwend >>>>> @ netlabs.org >>>>> >>>>> ktk [a t] netlabs.org >>>>> ------- >>>>> Open Source Project >>>>> http://www.netlabs.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mo McRoberts - Technical Lead - The Space >>>> 0141 422 6036 (Internal: 01-26036) - PGP key CEBCF03E, >>>> Zone 1.08, BBC Scotland, Pacific Quay, Glasgow, G51 1DA >>>> Project Office: Room 7083, BBC Television Centre, London W12 7RJ >>> >>> Social Web Architect >>> http://bblfish.net/ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -ericP >> >> office: +1.617.599.3509 >> mobile: +33.6.80.80.35.59 >> >> (eric@w3.org) >> Feel free to forward this message to any list for any purpose other than >> email address distribution. >> >> There are subtle nuances encoded in font variation and clever layout >> which can only be seen by printing this message on high-clay paper. >> >> > > Social Web Architect > http://bblfish.net/ > Social Web Architect http://bblfish.net/
Received on Wednesday, 20 November 2013 16:43:29 UTC