- From: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 22:29:22 -0400
- To: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
- CC: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>, Markus Lanthaler <markus.lanthaler@gmx.net>, 'public-rdf-comments' <public-rdf-comments@w3.org>
On 06/10/2013 06:09 PM, David Booth wrote: > There are only a few outliers, and most of them seem to be members of > the JSON-LD group who: (a) clearly have an ulterior motive in > re-defining the term "Linked Data"; Let's step back from this particular discussion for a second. I hope that all of us can get some perspective by doing so. I've noticed the tone of this thread go from helpful to personal in the last few responses. That's not going to help the various parties involved get to any sort of compromise. I don't think it helps to start accusing others of having "ulterior motive"s for a few reasons: 1. It erodes the environment of good faith that we strive to create across all W3C groups. 2. There is a negative connotation attached with that phrase and it puts people on the defensive. 3. We're not mind readers, so we shouldn't try to predict intent, and 4. We all want the RDF data model to succeed. In general, we all want the same thing - for RDF to succeed in a much bigger way than it has to date. Let's review what we have so far: 1. JSON-LD has just been integrated into products (GMail, Google Search, and Google Now) that are being used by 425+ million people. 2. RDFa is being used on hundreds of thousands of domains. 3. The primary editors, authors, members, and implementors of those technologies are involved in the RDF WG, RDFa WG, and JSON-LD CG. Any argument that claims that the people working on these technologies are not also fighting for RDF are unconvincing. Additionally, I think that the people working on these technologies have a very keen insight into what works and what doesn't when it comes to getting adoption. They have a track record to back it up. One of the biggest problems that we faced with RDFa adoption were the letters R, D, and F. It's not an issue in the RDF / Semantic Web groups. It is a big issue outside of those groups. It's a big issue because "RDF" has a horribly steep learning curve for Web developers that have to keep umpteen technologies in their head as they try to create their products. It's not the data model that's the problem, it's everything else that is lumped on top. It's hard for a web developer to sort out what the necessary parts of the stack are, so they tend to go all in and get overwhelmed as a result. The litmus test for most Web technologies that have high adoption rates is "can I pick it up in an afternoon and do something cool with it?". If the answer is "no", then the chances of it succeeding are far worse than if you can answer the question above in the affirmative. JSON-LD takes these two general insights and attempts to organize the spec language around summarizing the good parts of what we're trying to achieve as a community without overloading the developer with unnecessary information. If we introduce RDF too early in that document, we have three potential negative outcomes: 1. Readers will feel overwhelmed that they have to learn yet another technology to understand JSON-LD. 2. Readers will go off and read about RDF, which they shouldn't have to do to do something useful with the technology. 3. Readers will short-cut the decision to use the technology based on the LARGE body of mis-information out there about RDF. Including RDF that early in the document only has one positive outcome: 1. We will be aligned with TimBL's definition of Linked Data (which has been demonstrated to be controversial - case in point: this thread and the increasingly hostile tone of the debate). If there is an ulterior motive, it is to get RDF into the hands of as many people as possible... which is a common goal for all of us. It would be good if we can get the tone of the conversation centered around that assumption and some solid proposals. Your last proposal was good. It was -1'ed for reasons given, but you should also keep in mind that we integrated some of your earlier feedback as well and have a very good track record of integrating feedback from the RDF WG when there is consensus around that feedback. If any of you that feel strongly about this have the time to join the JSON-LD call tomorrow, please do. I think we could come to an understanding over the phone. Dial-in details are here: http://json-ld.org/minutes/ -- manu -- Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny) Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. blog: Meritora - Web payments commercial launch http://blog.meritora.com/launch/
Received on Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:29:59 UTC