Re: Improving discussions in standards groups

Gah, totally forgot the pointer to the update:
https://github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior/pull/2/commits/c81968c4eea8e9834f6668c9ba329d84e10506e7


On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 10:56 AM Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Tzviya, this is great feedback.  I've committed all these changes,
> with a slight addition to the first one, and an attempt to recast to avoid
> the "not sure why you think" trap you identified.  Does anyone else have
> feedback?
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 9:32 AM Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m glad that Google is working on improving discussions. I have
>> considered writing a document like this for W3C for years, and I’m
>> wondering what others think about that idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> A few suggestions for rewording to improve tone a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior#q-what-are-some-examples-of-golden-rule-a-recognize-the-validity-of-others-points-of-view
>>
>> s/recognize that their prioritization may be valid in their view,/
>> recognize that their prioritization may be valid
>>
>> s/or simpler alternatives that may satisfy the same need./ or simpler
>> alternatives that may satisfy everyone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior#q-what-are-some-examples-of-golden-rule-b-dont-assume-ask-instead
>>
>> s/Don’t make assumptions about what others say that they did not
>> explicitly state./ Don’t make assumptions about what others think that they
>> did not explicitly state.
>>
>> I am trying to come up with better wording for ““I’m not sure why you
>> think X is an important problem, is there a use case I’m not considering?”
>> – Perhaps “Can you say more about why you think X is important? Is there a
>> use case I’m not considering?” The phrasing “I’m not sure why you think…”
>> very much puts the other person on the defensive. You might consider adding
>> something about how asking “why” puts people on the defensive but asking
>> people to explain their ideas more encourages them to share more
>> information without seeming to accuse. This one is subtle, and I hope I’ve
>> explained it well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior#q-what-should-i-do-if-the-discussion-is-not-respectful-or-constructive
>>
>> You might consider adding a comment about admonishing people in private
>> and praising them in public.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tzviya Siegman*
>>
>> Information Standards Principal
>>
>> Wiley
>>
>> 201-748-6884 <(201)%20748-6884>
>>
>> tsiegman@wiley.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2022 1:58 PM
>> *To:* public-pwe@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Improving discussions in standards groups
>>
>>
>>
>> ⛔
>>
>> This is an external email.
>>
>> Hi all!
>>
>>
>>
>> I wanted to raise an effort to the PWE's attention, and invite you to
>> provide feedback if you like; there's no explicit ask here, other than "let
>> me know if you think this is a bad idea".
>>
>>
>>
>> In short, we want to improve the tone and engagement in standards venues,
>> by encouraging more inclusive and productive-conversation-focused behavior
>> - both by Google employees, and others.  We wanted to highlight this to our
>> team, and also encourage those outside Google to let us know when we could
>> do better.  Our intent is to explicitly support Codes of Conduct
>> (particularly the CEPC), not to replace them.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can see this work in progress at
>> https://github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cwilso/standards-of-behavior__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!p7f_dB7oVWWipdfbKl1lT4A2G5FLGywccvqy_ClYztucE6GFvc-odtTN1lmn9VUtr3H6A-2c6NX7mw$>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> To quote the introduction:
>>
>>
>>
>> We believe the development of successful, open standards for the web
>> platform requires *safe, inclusive and productive* venues for
>> discussion. In particular, standards discourse must include and be
>> respectful of diverse perspectives. At all times, our interactions should
>> be respectful, professional and constructive.
>>
>> This document outlines guidelines that we believe are necessary to
>> encourage constructive conversation, and ensure safety and inclusiveness
>> for all involved. This is not an attempt to rewrite Codes of Conduct in
>> venues; we are just indicating that we expect organizations to abide by
>> their Codes of Conduct, and providing an explicit avenue of support within
>> our team to those who need it.
>>
>> Please let me know if you have any feedback; I'm happy to discuss at a
>> PWE meeting if you like, but will also happily accept feedback in email or
>> Github issues.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>>
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>