- From: Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com>
- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 10:23:41 +0100
- To: Coralie Mercier <coralie@w3.org>, Inclusion and Diversity Community Group <public-idcg@w3.org>, public-pwe@w3.org
Thank you for scribing Coralie, and thank you to everyone who was there. On 14/10/2020 07:42, Coralie Mercier wrote: > Dear all, > > The minutes of yesterday’s joint meeting are available: > https://www.w3.org/2020/10/13-idcg-minutes.html > > Text version: > ============= > > Joint meeting of the IDCG and PWECG, part of TPAC > 13 October 2020 > > [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log. > [2] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/blob/main/2020-10-13_joint-PWECG-IDCG-meeting.md > [3] https://www.w3.org/2020/10/13-idcg-irc > > Attendees > Present > Barbara, boazsender, chaals, Coralie, hober, Jeff, > Jes_Daigle, Jory, judy, Léonie, Ralph, Rhian, > Sheilamoussavi, Simon, Susanne_Konig, Tzviya, wendyreid, > ZoeBijl > Regrets > wseltzer > Chair > Léonie, Tzviya > Scribe > koalie > > Contents > 1. [4]Introductions > 2. [5]CEPC training plan > 3. [6]IDCG issues that have a PWE angle > 1. [7]Review our terminology #15 > 2. [8]Create inclusive language references #17 > 3. [9]Create WG welcome emails #19 > 4. [10]Create group specific info pages #20 > 4. [11]Review of IDCG issues > > Meeting minutes > > Léonie: Welcome everyone > > Introductions > > [Thanks everyone and welcome!] > > [let's use the zoom hand up feature, rather than q+] > > CEPC training plan > > Leonie: in addition to CEPC training we're interested in > determining any other sort of training > > Tzviya: We have begun training in PWECG with an agressive plan > … pilot session two weeks ago > … invited a few people from W3C team, CGs, to offer feedback > … a week from today, a CEPC training will be orgnized (e-mail > invitation will be sent today) > > <zcorpan_> Simon Pieters, Bocoup > > <boazsender> Boaz Sender, Bocoup > > Tzviya: "what can I do as a by-stander", not a training about > ombuds > … it's the beginning of our efforts > … we're looking at developing proper training > … Jory has also developed a conflict de-escalation training > module > > Jeff: training is in a week at 1600 UTC > … after the W3C AC Meeting session > > Judy: We want to reach the global community of W3C > … which is thousands of people > … so we'll do several sessions and turn the training into a > video > … some part of the interactive mode TBD for the video > > <tzviya> for reference [12]https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/ > > [12] https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/ > > ==== > > Leonie: the second part of our agenda is an open floor > … for suggestions for other trainings > … from IDCG, the idea of diversity training came up > … we were fortunate to have consultation from Kim Crayton > … I'm sure there are other suggestions > > Tzviya: a few questions came up from conversations in PWE > … how to make sure any training is international > … this group today is very western > … we're talking about inclusiveness > … and want to appeal to the entire W3C > … scaling to cultural differences > … aiming for useful training around the world > … No matter how good our diversity efforts are if we don't make > people feel welcome > … so what can we do in that regard? > … and what training can we develop in those areas? > > Sheila: Talked with Dom about open breakouts > … we talked about a "facilitator training" > … this applies to any events > … includes making sure anyone is familiar with code of conducts > … so efforts to make those more accessible > … "micro-aggression" training > … is an opportunity where we could have facilitation > collaboration > > WendyR: I love that idea, Sheila > … the facilitator training would be a great place to start for > W3C Chairs as well > … to smooth things over > > <Judy> [JB: PWE Wiki, training section: [13]https://github.com/ > w3c/PWETF/wiki/PWE-Roadmap#training ] > > [13] https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/wiki/PWE-Roadmap#training > > Léonie: taking my chair's hat off > … is there need for some training to recognise problem > situations? > > <chaals> [+1 a focus on chairs is a good approach for W3C] > > Léonie: as much as training to deal with situations? > … e.g. would I be able to recognise a micro-aggression? > … so maybe in some areas, taking a step back to understand > people understand the problems. > > <chaals> [I would bet that not everyone around W3C knows what a > microaggression is] > > Jeff: Returning to Tzviya's idea to be more welcoming globally > … I had a thought > > <Judy> Here's one reference for microaggressions: [14]https:// > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression > > [14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression > > Jeff: whether we would be interested in taking on an ambitious > project of writing down a guide > … to have an inclusive community > … we're talking about training chairs > … have we written down the issues? > … there's a lot more to it, cultural elements > … just as we have a PWE doc, we should have an effort for being > welcoming > … it probably takes a lot of work to do it right. > > Judy: With regard to Jeff's comment > … he's suggesting an action > … I'm thinking partly another one of the many actions for IDCG > … that have no one backing them up > … so worth capturing > … and perhaps capturing volunteers with it. > … or stick it on the list for later > > Leonie: first step could be to open an issue in the IDCG > > Judy: Go for it, Jeff, the repo awaits. > > Jeff: OK. > > <jeff> [15][New IDCG issue raised to create a Guide for global > inclusions > > [15] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/32] > > IDCG issues that have a PWE angle > > Review our terminology #15 > > <tink> [16]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/15 > > [16] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/15 > > Leonie: " Review our terminology #15" is an open issue in the > IDCG that may have a PWE angle > > Tzviya: summary > … suggestion to review documents and policies > … e.g., the phrases such as "master" on GH > … and there's been efforts to change that > … there's some discussion about colours in CSS and SVG > … pronouns are also being discussed > … for usage in specs > > Leonie: some progress already > … systems team made changes to templates and the like > … Denis has also made changes to the pubrules editorial > guidance > … W3C has been around for over 25 years, so there may other > places to look at > > Zoe: about pronouns > ... I spent some time years ago looking at the HTML5 spec > … it uses a lot of "him/he" > … I never ended up submitting my review for various reasons > … on the subject of preferred vs. personal > … my pronouns are mine, so they're preferred. > … just throwing that out there. > > Léonie: thank you > … good to hear from different perspectives > > Simon: on gender in HTML std > … this was changed in 2015 > > <zcorpan_> [17]https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/405 > > [17] https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/405 > > Simon: I can put a link in IRC ^^ > … it started with a PR in December 2015. > > Zoe: Interesting > … I looked in 2017 or 2018 > … but that was the W3C spec > … that may be where the discrepancy comes from > … thanks for sharing that. > > <zcorpan_> (current gender balance in the HTML standard: > he/him/his: 29. she/her/hers: 31. they/their/theirs: 761 ) > > <tzviya> [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/ > Style#Personal_pronouns > > [18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Style#Personal_pronouns > > Léonie: follow-up question: > ... the Education and Outreach has done some work re: pronouns > … if I understood correctly their conclusion > … is to avoid use of pronouns altogether > … refer to person's name > … I struggle with this personally as this feels like avoiding > the issue > > Zoe: on the importance of pronouns and identity of people > … I don't think avoiding the pronouns at all is the right path > … but it's just my opinion > > chaals: A couple things > … I agree with Léonie and Zoe > … it feels weird to me > … in the issue we have specific comments > … my other point was re: Jeff's previous comment > … do we have a particular marker for what people need to keep > an eye on? > > Judy: there was a mention a few minutes ago that the W3C > version of the HTML5 spec wasn't updated > … we need to capture that need > > Ralph: there's only one document now > > Judy: With regard to the EO work > … they didn't want to use pronouns when using personas > … I'll check with Shawn if there are some misunderstandings > > Tzviya: I don't want to speak to what the EO doc says > … we want to make sure this speaks to the people > … this isn't just about pronouns > … "Alice and Bob" is often used > … that's not very international > … this is something an Equity Review Board could look at > [there's an open issue in IDCG for an ERB] > … the pronouns issue could be looked at in a broader way > > Leonie: other issues worth looking at? > > Tzviya: other terms, still on the topic, such as > "grand-fathering" > … there's a list that exists > > Léonie: Thanks, that would be helpful > > <Ralph> [ZoeBijl posts [19]https://www.selfdefined.app/ as a > resource] > > [19] https://www.selfdefined.app/ > > Create inclusive language references #17 > > <tink> [20]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/17 > > [20] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/17 > > Leonie: This comes from personal experience > … people struggle whether to say I'm blind or visually impaired > ... and even the entire community doesn't agree > … could it be useful to our community to come up with a few > guidelines? > ... making sure to make people feel welcome > … so getting the language right > > Wendy: is it worthwhile to create something custom when there's > already lots of materials out there? > > <tzviya> +1 to wendyreid > > Wendy: [21]https://www.selfdefined.app/ which Zoe shared in the > zoom chat is looking for contributors > … we could make reference to existing things that we know work > > [21] https://www.selfdefined.app/ > > Léonie: huge +1 to not reinventing the wheel > > <chaals> [+1 to Wendy's suggestion that we use, and contribute > to as relevant, existing work rather than trying to start our > own on this] > > Judy: Let's capture that for curating > > Wendy: sure, taking it > > Create WG welcome emails #19 > > <tink> [22]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/19 > > [22] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/19 > > [Tzviya introduces the issue] > > Tzviya: the idea is to get a template that each chair would > adapt to their groups > > Léonie: those here with experience in chairing WGs or CGs, any > thoughts? > … how much variation do we think there might be? > … or, those who would receive such messages, any thoughts? > > WendyR: As a Chair, I draft welcome emails > … I don't think they would widely range > … here's the link to our weekly call, our chat, our GH repo, > etc. > … whatever the group chooses to use is included > … and a summary of what we've been working on > … at the very end: please reach out to the chairs if you have > any questions > … that's universal, I think > … any group would benefit > > Léonie: Agreed > > Boaz: I'm looking at the guidebook > > <zcorpan_> [23]https://wpc.guide/ > > [23] https://wpc.guide/ > > Boaz: and I'm thinking about the FAQ we may have to write for > the open breakouts > … definitely, having an email template, but also a maintained > body of text > … that explains some of the basics, the conventions of groups > and the w3c community > … minuting, quueing yourself, etc. > > <Ralph> [we maintain [24]https://www.w3.org/Guide/ directly in > GitHub and welcome all proposals for improvement] > > [24] https://www.w3.org/Guide/ > > Boaz: it might be repetitive for people who join several > groups, but I think it's OK. > > Léonie: I agree very much > > <Ralph> [right now I believe we have muiltiple versions, so few > versions will help those who participate in multiple groups :0 > ] > > Judy: there are two audiences > … Chairs may be busy enough that they won't be looking for that > kind of info > … if we created the resource and spread it around > … we may also offer that as a separate training > … the topic of being welcoming and creating a sense of > belomging has come up in many of the IDCG calls > … along with de-escalation > … PWE could take up or jointly with IDCG > … and push it to chairs > > Tzviya: a lot of this reminds me of [25]https://github.com/w3c/ > wg-effectiveness? > > [25] https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness? > > <tzviya> [26]https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness/blob/ > master/process.md > > [26] https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness/blob/master/process.md > > Tzviya: the TF has closed since then > … process for busy people was great > … it's laying there > > <boazsender> [27]https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness/blob/ > master/process.md > > [27] https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness/blob/master/process.md > > Boaz: these breakouts are about to be put on the agenda > … the topics are things like inclusion and justice on the > internet > … and there's another one > … who are from people recruited from the P5js community have > led sessions for new people in W3C, and most people are most > interested in the nuances of IRC. People do not feel included > until they know how to backchannel in IRC community > > Boaz: "process for busy people" is not so much about creating a > safe space > … the framing is more fast-paced that it needs to be for doing > the work of welcoming somebody > … at the high-level, the work that's already there from Natasha > is a great place to look at > > <boazsender> [28]https://p5js.org/community/ > > [28] https://p5js.org/community/ > > <boazsender> koalie: p5.js is the name of the community, and > [29]https://p5js.org/community/ is their community statement > > [29] https://p5js.org/community/ > > Léonie: any other business for this meeting, please let me know > … we'll add to the end of the agenda > > Judy: It would be interesting to take a tour of the issues on > the IDCG to pick up volunteers > > Léonie: We can > … but I'm always hesitant to do that on calls > … uncomfortable with putting poeple on the spot > > Tzviya: I agree with Léonie on that > > Léonie: we have twenty or more issues at the moment > … any ones in particular? > > Judy: I'll skim what we have at the break and pick 6 > > Coralie: I volunteered to edit the process for busy people in > light of Process 2020. It's in my TODO. > > Zoe: regarding onboarding of new people > … I sometimes get asked and my instict is to send people to > start from the GH repo of that particular group > … it would be good to have something like that on the W3C > website > … right now we have [30]https://www.w3.org/participate/ > … but it doesn't say how to get started > > [30] https://www.w3.org/participate/ > > <BarbaraH> +1 we need a welcoming / FAQ > > Zoe: and I don't know if it's by design because we don't want a > lot of invited experts, if there's a lot of overhead > > <wendyreid> +1 > > Zoe: nor if this is the right group to bring this up at > > [Jory arrives] > > Leonie: please open an issue on the IDCG repo > … so we have it to track > > [Susanne departs for another meeting] > > [Tzviya takes over chairing from Léonie] > > <tink> [31]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/20 > > [31] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/20 > > Create group specific info pages #20 > > Léonie: This issue pertains to group pages > … related to the previous issue > > Tzviya: the idea is to help WG come up with better templates, > along with the website redesign > … welcome feedback here as well > > Judy: in addition to an updated template, we need a culture of > telling people what we're working on > … Zoe mentioned earlier they like to point people to GH > … to show that the issues are > … I think a human description is useful > … it seems there's a high-degree level of resistance > … we need to overcome that cultural barrier > > Coralie: that resonates > … the website redesign has some of that in scope > > Tzviya: I don't know if it's reluctance or people not knowing > what or where to share > … I've used the W3C Blog > … one area is to determine the best approach to communicate > > WendyR: A survey maybe? > … finding out how people get their information > … e.g. Twitter? member mailing list? wait for an e-mail from > the chair? > … there's a number of ways > … understanding where people are getting information from means > we can target > > [Coralie nods] > > Barb: I really like the roadmaps > … the media one; [32]https://w3c.github.io/web-roadmaps/media/ > … any way we could improve the roadmap? could we standardize > how roadmaps are done? > > [32] https://w3c.github.io/web-roadmaps/media/ > > Judy: I wish we could diversify how W3C uses roadmaps rather > than standardize them > … those work for specs to show what browsers deploy those > > <BarbaraH> [33]https://www.w3.org/Mobile/roadmap/ > > [33] https://www.w3.org/Mobile/roadmap/ > > Judy: I'd like W3C to show other things > … uptake > … not just the browser-only uptake > … they can be a great tool > > Boaz: I've seen some and they're useful > … in terms of the communication work > … I hear Chairs complain about having not enough time to do > their work > … so scope of maintining a micro-site for each group > … getting time from their employers > … this could be delegated, I don't know > … coming up with a plan > … to help get this done > > Tzviya: it's an important point > > Boaz: try to get buy-in > … for test-writing and general documentation, funding the work > is the question > … one thought would be to get buy-in from Members who are > sending people > … to support this extra 10-hour or so a month or whatever we > estimate this to be > > Coralie: The new wg pages that were recently released have been > designed in a way to make it possible for the staff contacts or > the chairs to supply those updates > > Tzviya: Documentation, please > … add website maintainer, or something, and build in to the > charter maybe? > > Boaz: I was going to ask actually how is an editor assigned > when a group is created? > > Tess: the process says that Chairs appoint editors > … in the CSS WG they prefer to come up with a group resolution > … so it's not just the Chairs > > Tzviya: sometimes it's obvious, sometimes you have to beg a > little bit > > Review of IDCG issues > > <Judy> [34]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues > > [34] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues > > <Judy> [35]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Draft-BLM-statement > .... which includes the following statement of thematic goals: > "W3C commits to take actions in the areas of learning, > messaging, outreach, creating a welcoming environment, > supporting participants, technical development, governance, and > continuous improvement." > > [35] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Draft-BLM-statement > > <Judy> Some of the issues are organized into thematic areas -- > > <Judy> [36]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/ > Learning-and-Discussion > > [36] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Learning-and-Discussion > > <Judy> Here's where you can find specific actions under this > theme, to help with: ....[37]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/ > Learning-and-Discussion#sub-actions > > [37] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Learning-and-Discussion#sub-actions > > <Judy> [38]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/ > Outreach-and-Messaging > > [38] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging > > <Judy> And here's where you can find specific actions under > this theme, to help with: .....[39]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/ > wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging#sub-actions > > [39] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Outreach-and-Messaging#sub-actions > > <Judy> [40]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/ > Making-W3C-More-Welcoming > > [40] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Making-W3C-More-Welcoming > > <Judy> Feel free to dive in anywhere, and let people know if > you'd like to participate on some actions... > > [Judy reads from the themes in the actions the proposed W3C BLM > statement includes] > > <wendyreid> Link to Kim's reponse: [41]https://www.w3.org/2020/ > 09/15-idcg-minutes.html#t01 > > [41] https://www.w3.org/2020/09/15-idcg-minutes.html#t01 > > Tzviya: We need a lot of help > … not all of us have the connections > … please suggest networks, please open issues, please discuss > with us > … and if you think we're on the wrong path, please say so > > Judy: when looking at us being too white, look at the > "outreach" theme > … please let us know how this is done in your orgs > > Barb: Grace Hopper virtual conference > … I did take notes on some of the actions they were doing to > encourage people of colour to participate more > … in summary: > … what W3C is facing is probably very similar to what other > orgs are facing > … beside reaching out, we may try to leverage what companies > are doing > … like Grace Hopper > … The secong thing about Grace Hopper > … was why diversity candidates were leaving > … the number one reason is that they don't think it's an > inclusive environment > … Finally, they had a wonderful open source day > … I'm going to challenge W3C to submit a session for next > year's Grace Hopper > … to get people to talk about the value of W3C > … how to participate, how it's a career enhancement > > Sheila: To Barb's 1st and 2nd point, what is going to be > challenging to recruit black folks > … is needing to tell what we've done > … and ours is a white space > … so, show things are needed > … equipping everyone to make the space more welcoming > … on ramps for beginners is one part > … actively countering the fact that ours is a white space > … I'd love to get a sense how to help in that space > … I had a question around the process to contributing to these > documents > … doubling-down on internal as we recruit > > Tzviya: if you have a GH account you can contribute directly > … I'd love to be in touch with you Sheila > > WendyR: I agree 100% with what Sheila just said > … we have 2 fronts of work > … external outreach to tell the world we need it and here's > what we're doing > … and actually do that > … there's not only the statements we might make, but there are > conferences, publishing our statement publicly and back it up > with actions > … so Grace Hopper is an example. CanQuick is another in Canada > … similar audience > … one thing I was wondering as conferences are great to get the > word out > … could this group work on a presentation of what the W3C is > doing > … so we can give the date to those who need > … basics and consistent message > > [Coralie nods] > > <BarbaraH> +1 on the value of W3C > > Boaz: I wanted to share a bit about the strategy for the open > breakouts > … as we're recruiting people of colour and from > under-represented communities > … Sheila made a great point we need a safe space > > [Jes drops to go to another meeting] > > Boaz: our strategy for the open breakouts in the interim is to > focus on a smaller community at TPAC > … where we can plan the breakouts to be safe spaces as we're > going to train the facilitators > > <Judy> IDCG Wiki on being welcoming: [42]https://github.com/ > w3c/idcg/wiki/Making-W3C-More-Welcoming > > [42] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Making-W3C-More-Welcoming > > judy: one other link ^^ > … please comment on what you think is missing > … the CG meets every other week > … I'd love to stay in touch > … and make W3C more welcoming. > > Tzviya: Thank you very much everybody > … sorry to end so abruptly > > <BarbaraH> +1 on getting more info on the Boaz open breakouts > > Tzviya: we'll share the minutes from this meeting > > [adjourned] > > > Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by > [43]scribe.perl version 123 (Tue Sep 1 21:19:13 2020 UTC). > > [43] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html > > -- > Coralie Mercier - W3C Marketing & Communications - https://www.w3.org > mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/Coralie/ > > > > > > > -- Director @TetraLogical https://tetralogical.com
Received on Wednesday, 14 October 2020 09:24:00 UTC