- From: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 23:04:12 +0100
- To: Stephan Zednik <zednis2@rpi.edu>
- CC: "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <EMEW3|920457469bfc18381fa72981f4fd129bp4CN4K08l.moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|5191635C>
I thought your convention of replacing / by _, and adding _ in front a digit starting local name was good. Luc On 13/05/13 23:01, Stephan Zednik wrote: > Yes. Do you have a preference for the id conventions? > > --Stephan > > On May 13, 2013, at 8:10 AM, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk > <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote: > >> >> Hi Stephan, >> >> >> Will you create a new schema file with optional attributes, and >> modify the prov-family file, and checks it validates properly? >> >> Luc >> >> On 05/10/2013 04:12 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>> Hi Luc, >>> >>> I agree that the schema's lack of support for non-PROV namespaced >>> xml attributes is an oversight that should be corrected. I think >>> this simply never came up during our WG deliberations or the >>> PROV-XML reviews. >>> >>> I think we can address this issue separate from the identifier >>> convention we are also discussing. >>> >>> I do not see a reason to disallow non-PROV attributes. I do see a >>> justification for allowing them so that community conventions may >>> make use of non-PROV xml-attributes on PROV-XML elements. >>> >>> For these reasons, I believe we should definitely update the schema >>> and record it in the errata. >>> >>> I can make the change to the schema this weekend. >>> >>> --Stephan >>> >>> On May 10, 2013, at 2:56 AM, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>> <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stephan, >>>> >>>> It seems that there is an oversight in the schema: we don't allow >>>> attributes from other namespaces (while >>>> we allow elements from other namespaces). >>>> >>>> I am of the view that if this gives us a good solution, we should >>>> modify the schema, and record it in errata. >>>> >>>> >>>> What if Entity is now defined as follows: >>>> >>>> <xs:complexType name="Entity"> >>>> <xs:sequence> >>>> <!-- prov attributes --> >>>> <xs:element ref="prov:label" minOccurs="0" >>>> maxOccurs="unbounded"/> >>>> <xs:element ref="prov:location" minOccurs="0" >>>> maxOccurs="unbounded"/> >>>> <xs:element ref="prov:type" minOccurs="0" >>>> maxOccurs="unbounded"/> >>>> <xs:element ref="prov:value" minOccurs="0"/> >>>> <xs:any namespace="##other" processContents="lax" >>>> minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/> >>>> </xs:sequence> >>>> <xs:attribute ref="prov:id"/> >>>> * <xs:anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax"/>* >>>> </xs:complexType> >>>> >>>> >>>> We could write: >>>> >>>> >>>> <prov:entity prov:id="chairs:_2011OctDec_0004" >>>> xlink:type="resource" xlink:href=*MailScanner has detected a >>>> possible fraud attempt from "lists.w3.org" claiming to be* >>>> "https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141"> >>>> </prov:entity> >>>> >>>> >>>> What about a usage? Would it be enough to write: >>>> >>>> <prov:used> >>>> <prov:activity prov:ref="act:publ1"/> >>>> <prov:entity prov:ref="chairs:_2011OctDec_0004"/> >>>> </prov:used> >>>> >>>> or do we need also a hlink href? >>>> >>>> Then, schema would become: >>>> >>>> >>>> <xs:complexType name="IDRef"> >>>> <xs:attribute ref="prov:ref" use="required" /> >>>> <xs:anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax"/> >>>> </xs:complexType> >>>> >>>> And extra attribute: >>>> >>>> <prov:used> >>>> <prov:activity prov:ref="act:publ1"/> >>>> <prov:entity prov:ref="chairs:_2011OctDec_0004" >>>> xlink:type="resource" xlink:href=*MailScanner has detected a >>>> possible fraud attempt from "lists.w3.org" claiming to be* >>>> "https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141"/> >>>> </prov:used> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, we have to: >>>> >>>> 1. Identify all the anyAttribute required in the schema >>>> 2. Check whether they are a good solution for the problem >>>> 3. Decide whether we update the schema and write an errata. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, is there an extra conventions that we are using it, we >>>> should record in the FAQ? >>>> If prov:entity is not declared in the current file, how do we know >>>> which QName to use? If fact, it may be arbitrarily chosen? >>>> >>>> Luc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/10/2013 01:48 AM, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>>>> here is the idea with xlink. I ~think~ I am using xlink semantics correctly. by using prov:id and xlink:href together you disambiguate the id from the URI for the prov object. You now don't have to worry about an implicit mapping since the URI if the PROV object resource is explicit as an xlink:href. >>>>> >>>>> <prov:entity prov:id="email:_2011Oct_0141" xlink:type="resource" xlink:href=*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.w3.org" claiming to be* "https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141"> >>>>> <prov:type xsi:type="xsd:QName">trans:pubreq</prov:type> >>>>> </prov:entity> >>>>> >>>>> <prov:used> >>>>> <prov:activity prov:ref="act:publ1"/> >>>>> <prov:entity prov:ref="email:_2011Oct_0141" xlink:type="resource" xlink:href=*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.w3.org" claiming to be* "https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141"/> >>>>> </prov:used> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think this idea comes too late though. We can still use a prov-"attribute" xml-element and describe a convention in the FAQ where a provx:url (provx = prov extension) xml-element can be used for the same purpose. We would not be able to put the prov-"attribute" in a prov:ref though, so the element referenced by the prov:ref would have to be defined locally for us to find a prov:url xml-element. >>>>> >>>>> Here is an example of the URL as prov-"attribute" idea: >>>>> >>>>> <prov:entity prov:id="email:_2011Oct_0141"> >>>>> <prov:type xsi:type="xsd:QName">trans:pubreq</prov:type> >>>>> <provx:url>https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141</provx:url> >>>>> </prov:entity> >>>>> >>>>> provx:url is NOT in the prov namespace because adding it as such would require us to modify the PROV-XML schema, which should now be frozen as I understand it. >>>>> >>>>> --Stephan >>>>> >>>>> On May 9, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Stephan >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you give an example illustrating what you propose? >>>>>> >>>>>> Luc >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science >>>>>> University of Southampton >>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ >>>>>> United Kingdom >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 May 2013, at 17:29, "Stephan Zednik"<zednis2@rpi.edu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Comments below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Stephan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> See below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 07/05/13 22:51, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Luc, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Comments below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Luc Moreau<l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I updated the provx file: prov:key now appears before entity. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The challenge is for identifiers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We can manually edit ids so that no / appears in the local name. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> chairs:2012AprJun/0037 -> chairs_2012AprJun:0037 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> but the challenge is for local identifiers starting with a number. All w3c email archives identify >>>>>>>>>> messages with numbers :-( >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not sure what the right approach is >>>>>>>>> Hmm, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What if the number is part of the prefix and we append a local name? A URI to the web page could be a non-PROV attribute on the entity. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How about >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <prov:entity prov:id="email_2011Oct_0141:msg" xmlns:email_2011Oct_0141=*MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "lists.w3.org" claiming to be* "https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Oct/0141/"> >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> </prov:entity> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't remember, but is '#' a valid NCName? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If so, I believe the QName above could be "email_2011Oct_0141:#", which would expand to be similar (equivalent?) to the URL you want the identifier to expand to. >>>>>>>> I don't think that # is allowed in an NCNAme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, trying to generalize your proposal, when the id (prefix:local) of a resource does not >>>>>>>> have a localname that is an NCName, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - mint a proper QName >>>>>>>> - add an attribute provx:url= ... with the url. >>>>>>> Well, I think I see a possible solution but we would need to modify the schema. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If we supported the xlink:href attribute on any elements that support prov:id or prov:ref attributes then we could use that to specify the full URI. In this way we could specify the URI & PROV ID for prov objects that are referenced but not locally declared... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As it is now, we should use a prov-"attrifbute" xml element and constrain all elements in our document that qnames to have a declaration and this prov-"attribute" xml element. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I guess this is all fine when you "declare" an entity (or any prov object). But what if you just refer to one and there is no declaration for it in the same file? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Should the minted QNames be recognizable? so that they can be converted back to the uri? >>>>>>>> Should we request that all minted QNames should have a corresponding declaration? >>>>>>> In our case I think so. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Stephan >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Luc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stephan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Luc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 05/02/2013 04:27 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I just ran a schema validator on prov-family.provx and there are a number of errors, but most are about invalid xs:QName values and should be straightforward to resolve. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The validation results are attached. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The most common issue by far is that the local part of a prov:id starts with a number, which is not allowed in xs:QName. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> w3:2011/01/prov-wg-charter >>>>>>>>>>> email:2012Apr/0583 >>>>>>>>>>> chairs:2011OctDec/0004 >>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I believe our other issues are caused by >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) having a '/' in the local part of a xs:QName >>>>>>>>>>> 2) our use of prov:key >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will look further into these. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Stephan >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>>>>>>>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>>>>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>>>>>>>>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>>>>>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>>>>>>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Professor Luc Moreau >>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Professor Luc Moreau >> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >> -- Professor Luc Moreau Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Monday, 13 May 2013 22:04:51 UTC