RE: PROV-ISSUE-474 (instances-and-bundles): Bundles and valid instances [prov-dm-constraints]

Sounds good to me.

thanks,
Simon

Dr Simon Miles
Senior Lecturer, Department of Informatics
Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK
+44 (0)20 7848 1166

Evolutionary Testing of Autonomous Software Agents:
http://eprints.dcs.kcl.ac.uk/1370/
________________________________________
From: James Cheney [jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk]
Sent: 09 August 2012 18:03
To: Miles, Simon
Cc: Provenance Working Group
Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-474 (instances-and-bundles): Bundles and valid  instances [prov-dm-constraints]

OK.  I have done a quick pass to use the term "PROV dataset" and changed all occurrences of "toplevel bundle" to "toplevel instance".  I think it's a lot better this way!

instance = named set of statements.  (Excluding "bundle" constructs, which are not statements.)
bundle = named set of statements ~= named graph of PROV-O (hopefully!)
dataset = an instance and zero or more bundles (with distinct names).
toplevel instance = the set of statements at the toplevel of a dataset

Module typos/snags, does this look OK?  If so I will close.

Perhaps this terminology would be useful in other documents (Luc pointed out PROV-N uses "toplevel bundle" too...).

--James

On Aug 9, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Miles, Simon wrote:

> Hello James,
>
> I strongly agree with the suggested general solution. I have no objection to "dataset" as a term. If you do still need to talk about bundles at all in PROV-Constraints, I think it should be made clear that the "toplevel" does not need to be named (does not need to be a bundle) to avoid confusion of concepts for different purposes.
>
> As said on the IRC, I don't think this is a blocking issue, just a matter of text clarification.
>
> thanks,
> Simon
>
> Dr Simon Miles
> Senior Lecturer, Department of Informatics
> Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK
> +44 (0)20 7848 1166
>
> Evolutionary Testing of Autonomous Software Agents:
> http://eprints.dcs.kcl.ac.uk/1370/
> ________________________________________
> From: James Cheney [jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk]
> Sent: 09 August 2012 17:21
> To: Provenance Working Group
> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-474 (instances-and-bundles): Bundles and valid instances [prov-dm-constraints]
>
> We discussed this in the teleconference and it sounded like it would be appropriate to find better terminology for the following three things, which are currently not clearly distinguished:
>
> - "the whole PROV instance, including set of toplevel statements and bundles"
> - "a particular set of statements, either the toplevel one or one within a bundle"
> - bundle = "a named set of provenance statements"
>
> My initial proposal is "PROV dataset", "PROV instance", and "bundle".  I believe "PROV dataset" is roughly analogous to what people call "dataset" in the context of SPARQL; if anyone knows different (or has objections or better suggestions), let me know.
>
> I'll send another message on this when this is ready for review.
>
> --James
>
> On Aug 9, 2012, at 3:45 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>
>> PROV-ISSUE-474 (instances-and-bundles): Bundles and valid instances [prov-dm-constraints]
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/474
>>
>> Raised by: Simon Miles
>> On product: prov-dm-constraints
>>
>> As requested, I'm submitting an issue where I feel a PROV-Constraints review comment of mine is not completely answered.
>>
>> My original comment:
>>> Bundles
>>> -------
>>> F. Section 6.1 seems a bit out of the blue. "The definitions
>>> [etc.]... assume a PROV instance with exactly one bundle", and then
>>> multiple bundles are handled as exactly the same number of
>>> instances. Why? Why is there a connection between number of instances
>>> and number of bundles? Why would a bundle be considered to be only one
>>> instance? I thought a bundle was an identified set of statements,
>>> allowing for provenance of provenance, which seems a distinct matter
>>> from whether a set of statements are valid. It seems fine for a user
>>> to treat one bundle as one instance if they want to, but there's no
>>> reason given why this is the general case.
>>
>> Response from editors:
>>> I am not sure I understand this comment.  However, I have rewritten
>>> slightly the intro of section 6.1.
>>>
>>> "The definitions, inferences, and constraints, and the resulting notions of normalization, validity and equivalence, assume a PROV instance that consists of exactly one bundle, the toplevel bundle, containing all PROV statements in the top level of the bundle (that is, not enclosed in a named bundle). In this section, we describe how to deal with PROV instances consisting of multiple named bundles. Briefly, each bundle is handled independently; there is no interaction between bundles from the perspective of applying definitions, inferences, or constraints, computing normal forms, or checking validity or equivalence."
>>
>> I agree this is clearer, but I don't feel it answers the key questions in my comment. To put my comment another way: you have explained checking validity where an instance consists of one bundle and of multiple bundles. The two other possibilities I see are:
>> (a) A bundle containing multiple instances;
>> (b) An instance that is a collection of PROV descriptions with no identifier and so is not a bundle, e.g. a provenance service query result.
>>
>> How do we deal with each of these cases? Or, if they cannot occur, why not?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>


--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Received on Thursday, 9 August 2012 17:09:18 UTC