Re: PROV-ISSUE-452: what is plan in association inference [prov-dm-constraints]

Several reviewers commented that the meaning and usage of "-" is still confusing, in association and other places.  I have re-opened the issue and we will try to take all the review comments on it into account.

--James

On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:02 PM, James Cheney wrote:

> I have added a remark to explain that existential variables can be instantiated with either an identifier or '-', thus, the existing inference is general enough already.
> 
> (As with the treatment of existential variables generally, this needs to be explained a little more carefully and visibly, but this is a generic issue).
> 
> I am marking this issue "pending review" so please continue discussion if the way this is handled in the document is not satisfactory.
> 
> --James
> 
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 12:07 PM, James Cheney wrote:
> 
>> Yes, that's true, but not inconsistent with what I said.  
>> 
>> I have in mind allowing existential variables to range over both regular identifiers and "-".  That is, in the plan position, "-" would be a special constant denoting "no plan".  (It might be clearer to call this "nil" or something explicitly in order to avoid complication.)
>> 
>> This is not the same as saying that wasAssociatedWith(id; a, ag, -, attr) is equivalent to wasAssociatedWith(id; a, ag, pl, attr) (they are not).
>> 
>> I acknowledge that this reading is not evident in the current document, andore generally the handling of different kinds of "-" and of existential variables needs work.  Proposed resolution: Do this.
>> 
>> Regarding whether an issue is appropriate, I agree that this is an open process.  Of course, the constraints document is online and anyone can read it and raise issues.  I just think that among editors of the document, it will be more efficient to discuss things that are essentially typos or things that are not clearly explained over email before making it a formal issue and clogging everyone's inbox.  I would rather spend the time working on the document than answering many different issue emails.  But I am happy to do it this way instead, I just think it will take longer.
>> 
>> --James
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James,
>>> 
>>> I am fine with your response, but section 6.1
>>> 
>>> states that wasAssociatedWith(id; a, ag, -, attr) is not equivalent to wasAssociatedWith(id; a, ag, pl, attr) where a plan is given.
>>> 
>>> It seems that some fine tuning is required here.
>>> 
>>> Luc
>>> 
>>> On 07/18/2012 10:52 AM, James Cheney wrote:
>>>> Hi Luc,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I don't see a need to raise issues about things that can be fixed easily through discussion.  It just clogs the issue system.
>>>> 
>>>> If we are treating "-" as an explicit "no plan" argument in association statements, then the most general form is "there exists _pl such that ... (... _pl ...).  So the urrent form of the rule already subsumes the disjunctive form you suggest.  (Having rules with explicit disjunctions in the heads is a bad idea, as it will take us outside a well-behaved rule formalism.)
>>>> 
>>>> --James
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 18, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Tom De Nies wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Isn't this related to the notion of default values for optional attributes?
>>>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-constraints.html#optional-attributes
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you're correct that we need to clarify this somewhere earlier in the document.
>>>>> Perhaps we can expand the conventions section (1.1) with the used notational conventions, such as the underscore for arguments that only occur once in a constraint/inference. Maybe we could use a similar symbol for possibly empty attributes, or just specify here that although the constraints always specify all arguments, those with an underscore that are optional, can possibly be omitted when applying the rule, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tom
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2012/7/18 Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org>
>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-452: what is plan in association inference [prov-dm-constraints]
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/452
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>>> On product: prov-dm-constraints
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some inferences allow new association statements to be inferred.
>>>>> See:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-constraints.html#inference-attribution
>>>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-constraints.html#inference-delegation
>>>>> 
>>>>> When we write: wasAssociatedWith(_id2;a, ag2, _pl2, _attrs2) in the consequent,
>>>>> a plan may not necessarily exist.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, shouldn't it be:
>>>>> 
>>>>> wasAssociatedWith(_id2;a, ag2, _pl2, _attrs2)
>>>>> or
>>>>> wasAssociatedWith(_id2;a, ag2, -, _attrs2)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>>>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> 
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.