- From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:31:27 +0100
- To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Jun, Daniel, Stephan, Thanks for your proposed definitions: I don't understand how the proposed definitions of Derivation would work in the presence of mutable resources. So, to illustrate this, I consider the following variant of our example - blogger (bob) generates new chart (c2) based on the data (lcp2) using some software (tools2) with statistical assumptions (stats2) - blogger (bob) publishes the chart (c2) under an open license (li3). - user (u1) visualises chart (c2) - later, blogger (bob) updates published chart (c2) rerunning (tools2) using other statistical assumptions (stats3) - user (u2) visualises chart the latest (c2) I would argue that we have: - a derivation from a downloaded copy of c2 to stats2 (as seen by u1) - another derivation from another downloaded copy of c2 to stats3 (as seen by u2) Hence, it does not seem appropriate to relate resource c2 directly to stats2 or stats3. Instead, I think we should relate the resource state representations of c2 (the downloaded copies) to stats2 and stats3, respectively. What do you think? Cheers, Luc On 05/31/2011 11:56 AM, Jun Zhao wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > On 27/05/2011 12:04, Daniel Garijo wrote: >> Hi Luc, all >> In the example c2 is also a derivation of d2, and from my point of view, >> c2 could also be seen as a derivation from c1, since it is the chart >> taken as reference >> and corected in c2... >> >> As for your second question, I think that if we want to be able to cover >> provenance from resources, resources representations and resources state >> representation, a derivation must be able to refer to all of them. > > That's why in the current wiki page defining derivation I used some > very vague terminologies. > > I think derivation should cover all the cases you listed above. And we > should start to clearly define the three above concepts in order to > define the rest provenance terms as accurately as we can for the moment. > > cheers, > > Jun > >> >> What do you think? >> Best, >> Daniel >> >> 2011/5/27 Luc >> Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> >> >> Dear all, >> >> Over the last week, we debated the notion of resource (PROV-ISSUE-1), >> one of the concepts identified in the charter as core to a provenance >> data model. It would be good to discuss the notion of derivation. >> >> Do we agree with the illustration of derivation [1]: >> in the example, chart c1 is a derivation of data set d1. >> Are there other interesting illustrations? >> >> Is derivation relating resources/resource representations/resource >> representation states? >> >> Cheers, >> Luc >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration >> >> >> >> >> >> On 05/20/2011 08:07 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote: >> PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept 'Derivation' >> [Provenance Terminology] >> >> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/7 >> >> Raised by: Luc Moreau >> On product: Provenance Terminology >> >> The Provenance WG charter identifies the concept 'Derivation' as a >> core concept of the provenance interchange language to be >> standardized (see http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter). >> >> What term do we adopt for the concept 'Derivation'? >> How do we define the concept 'Derivation'? >> Where does concept 'Derivation' appear in ProvenanceExample? >> Which provenance query requires the concept 'Derivation'? >> >> Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptDerivation >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Professor Luc Moreau >> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: >> l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> >> United Kingdom >> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm<http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >> >> >> >> > > -- Professor Luc Moreau Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Tuesday, 31 May 2011 11:31:56 UTC