Re: concept illustrations for the data journalism example

Hi James,

Ok, now I understand. I completely agree. Comments on the language used 
are important and the more concrete the comments the better.

I think we are trying to get agreement on the wording of the example 
before the telecon.

thanks,
Paul

James Cheney wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Maybe I misspoke; I wasn't implying any criticism. The example itself is
> fine.
>
> The description of processing steps and questions seems to be a prose
> form of the graph which seemed to correspond to the OPM way of
> describing things. I think this is quite natural too, but from the
> discussion Thursday I got the impression that not everyone agrees.
>
> If there is further disagreement about the language used to describe
> "processing steps" and "provenance questions" or the mapping of the
> concepts, then I would like to see concrete counterproposals rather than
> people simply saying that "language X has a different/better way of
> doing it" without giving details.
>
> It probably isn't necessary that the counterproposals be formulated in
> terms of a current language, but I don't see why it would hurt, as long
> as anyone who wants to is free to contribute.
>
> If everyone is happy with the current example and illustrations, then I
> am too and there is no problem - I may have jumped the gun in this
> discussion myself.
>
> --James
>
> On May 10, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I thought it would be good to see if we can agree on an example and
>> the illustrations of the concepts from the charter.
>>
>> I'm wary of bringing in any current languages in at this stage because
>> of the confusion it caused last week. I just worry that it jumps the gun.
>>
>> I would like to know how the example has an OPM flavour. I wrote it to
>> be generic but I may have subconscious bias. Can you let me know how
>> we can change it to ensure it doesn't imply anything?
>>
>> However, if others in the group want to pursue this that's fine with me.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> James Cheney wrote:
>>> Hi Paul and others,
>>>
>>> I meant to respond earlier to expand on what I meant by "examples" in
>>> the telecon on Thursday (and because I will unfortunately miss this
>>> Thursday's).
>>>
>>> I think the example and concept illustrations are a good starting point.
>>> I agree that it's good to employ high-level examples and document how
>>> the examples illustrate the concepts, but I think it would really help
>>> me (and perhaps others) to have concrete examples of how the different
>>> current proposals would handle examples like the data journalism one, so
>>> that any disagreement can be discussed in concrete terms.
>>>
>>> For example, the original "data journalism example" included an OPM-like
>>> graph and discussion that made it fairly clear how the example would be
>>> handled in an OPM style. During the telecon, I think Paulo was arguing
>>> that other languages such as PML would interpret various terms
>>> differently, leading to a different interpretation of the concepts. I
>>> think the current example/illustration also has this flavor, so I would
>>> like to see what would change if a PML or other style were used instead.
>>>
>>> I don't pretend to be an expert on any of the provenance
>>> languages/vocabularies being considered so far (my work has been mostly
>>> on provenance in databases, where there is a lot more variability
>>> between different techniques). Are there people who are experts on other
>>> techniques (PML, Provenir, Provenance Vocabulary) who could add examples
>>> of how they'd handle the data journalism example to the wiki? I don't
>>> mid trying to do so myself, but as a non-expert on the other techniques
>>> it is not clear that what I would come up with would be useful.
>>>
>>> --James
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> I asked for feedback on the proposed data journalism example [1] by
>>>> Monday. There was not a lot of discussion so I hope it's safe to
>>>> assume that the example was considered to be a good start.
>>>>
>>>> To help the discussion get going, I've put up a page [2] that lists
>>>> each concept from the charter and illustration of it from the example.
>>>>
>>>> It would be good to see if we agree whether these illustrations
>>>> actually illustrate the concepts.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample
>>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Received on Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:22:02 UTC