- From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 10:33:15 +0100
- To: Paul Groth <pgroth@gmail.com>
- CC: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Paul and Daniel. On 06/08/2011 10:13 AM, Paul Groth wrote: > Hi Luc, all: > > Is it really necessary to go down this road of defining influence. I > have this fear that we will never bottom out. Agreed. > > There are certain concepts that need to be defined terminologically > others may not. It depends on what are the core building blocks of the > model are. I suppose we wouldn't want the standard model to be over-constraining, to allow for many forms of derivations (in physical, digital, conceptual contexts). So, what are the (minimum) properties that need to be satisfied in order to qualify as a derivation? Luc > > Paul > > Luc Moreau wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Having identified a concept of Invariant View or Perspective on Thing >> (IVPT), I'd like to go back >> to the meaning of Derivation. >> >> Several of you indicated that Derivation expresses that one IVPT was >> influenced by another IVPT. >> >> Paolo has asked what does it mean to 'influence'? It's a good question! >> >> Will we be able to define a notion of influence that applies for all >> things, >> whether physical, digital, conceptual, or other? Should we go down >> the road of >> modelling influence in specific domains? >> >> Regards, >> Luc >> >> >> >> On 27/05/11 20:34, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Daniel Garijo wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Luc, all >>>> In the example c2 is also a derivation of d2, and from my point of >>>> view, >>>> c2 could also be seen as a derivation from c1, since it is the >>>> chart taken as reference >>>> and corected in c2... >>>> >>>> As for your second question, I think that if we want to be able to >>>> cover >>>> provenance from resources, resources representations and resources >>>> state >>>> representation, a derivation must be able to refer to all of them. >>>> >>>> What do you think? >>> >>> From the existing example/scenario section on Derivation: >>> >>> A derivation is a relation between two Resource State >>> Representations that expresses that one RSR was influenced by the >>> other RSR. >>> >>> A agree that a derivation should be a relation between two like >>> resource abstractions, and I agree with Daniel in that I am not sure >>> we should limit it to RSR. I believe one Resource could be derived >>> from another Resource, and same with Resource State. I also believe >>> derivation covers a large spectrum of relationships - FRBR has >>> covered some of this ground on the wide spectrum of different types >>> of derivation so thankfully we do not have to start from scratch. >>> Stories can be derived from other stores, editions of publications >>> are derived from earlier editions, adaptions are derived works, >>> translations are derived expressions, etc. >>> >>> I suggest an quick overview of FRBR's conclusions on derivations to >>> provide direction. >>> >>> I also agree with the suggestion that Version be a specialization / >>> subtype of Derivation, as suggested in the Version section of the >>> existing example/scenario. >>> >>> --Stephan >>> >>>> Best, >>>> Daniel >>>> >>>> 2011/5/27 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Over the last week, we debated the notion of resource >>>> (PROV-ISSUE-1), >>>> one of the concepts identified in the charter as core to a >>>> provenance >>>> data model. It would be good to discuss the notion of derivation. >>>> >>>> Do we agree with the illustration of derivation [1]: >>>> in the example, chart c1 is a derivation of data set d1. >>>> Are there other interesting illustrations? >>>> >>>> Is derivation relating resources/resource representations/resource >>>> representation states? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Luc >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/20/2011 08:07 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept >>>> 'Derivation' [Provenance Terminology] >>>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/7 >>>> >>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau >>>> On product: Provenance Terminology >>>> >>>> The Provenance WG charter identifies the concept >>>> 'Derivation' as a core concept of the provenance interchange >>>> language to be standardized (see >>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter). >>>> >>>> What term do we adopt for the concept 'Derivation'? >>>> How do we define the concept 'Derivation'? >>>> Where does concept 'Derivation' appear in ProvenanceExample? >>>> Which provenance query requires the concept 'Derivation'? >>>> >>>> Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptDerivation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Professor Luc Moreau >>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: >>>> l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> >>>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>>> <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- Professor Luc Moreau Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 8 June 2011 09:33:52 UTC