Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Response to WHAT -- Draft #1

Janina and Paul,

I would also add:


  1.  audio is an overlapping element. The expected behavior/use are quite different, as are the attribute sets.
  2.  desc is a child element of ssml audio, that also overlaps with the SVG desc (since we are talking about first class citizens of HTML)
  3.  While not name conflicts, once could argue author confusion with semantics. Here we can consider:
     *   ssml emphasis and html em
     *   ssml break and html br

Also consider that SVG and MathML are typically inline or block content islands, whereas common SSML usage (at least in our educational applications) are styling spoken presentation of individual words, typically occurring inline. What concerns me is the content bloat and authoring challenge of wrapping individual words with multiple elements to properly form the SSML markup.   I see this occurring a lot with MathML in HTML when used to “style” a variable occurring in text.

Mark


From: Paul Grenier <pgrenier@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 9:20 PM
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, public-pronunciation@w3.org <public-pronunciation@w3.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Response to WHAT -- Draft #1
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Janina,

The four elements that overlap are s, p, mark, and sub.

Otherwise, this looks like a good first pass at courting WHATWG.
--
Paul Grenier
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On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:08 AM Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>> wrote:
Colleagues:

I have an action to draft a followup to WHATWG regarding elevating SSML
to a status parallel to SVG in HTML 5. Herewith my draft. Clearly, it
needs a little help, especially as I'm not immediately recalling (or
finding) the list of 4 element overlaps!

When we complete our drafting (hopefully this week), please allow me (or
Matthew) to send on behalf of APA. It's a formality I think we should
observe for now.

<begin draft>

Dear Anne, All:

Thank you for the very helpful joint meeting during TPAC in Vancouver
last month. APA is highly encouraged by our conversation and the
outcomes. One of those specific next steps follows below. But, first let
me ask you to also thank Mike Smith, Simon Peters, and the other WHAT
participants who joined us. I would cc them--but I don't have current
emails.

So, in this email we'd like to confirm your recommendation regarding  specifics relating to our work on a normative approach for TTS
generated output that can be relied on to produce consistent results
across multiple operating environments and user agents. This is the work
of our Spoken Presentation Task Force whose home wiki page is here:

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/pronunciation/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FAPA%2Ftask-forces%2Fpronunciation%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C2aa6fb042dc9434cd4f108daabeffff1%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638011344533612956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d9w5QvPwxp67PCSBjWKeCl0aWtYOn%2BEuEJjip7x32yE%3D&reserved=0>

This was our second topic in Vancouver, under the title "Spoken
Presentation" as logged here:

https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-apa-minutes.html#t03<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2022%2F09%2F13-apa-minutes.html%23t03&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C2aa6fb042dc9434cd4f108daabeffff1%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638011344533612956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=i4y%2BOMqIr7lv1J1ji0FDl67VTfYkMLvwmVeweSFlyN4%3D&reserved=0>

APA would like to request WHAT consider elevating SSML to a status in
HTML parallel to that currently provided for SVG. We believe this would
be the most direct and productive approach for our various accessibility
use cases, and we believe it would be beneficial for nonaccessibility
use cases as well.

Our analysis indicates there are exactly 4 elements defined both by HTML
and SSML for which we'd need to define disambiguation. We believe the
first question should be to confirm our list. Is it correct? Or are
there others? Once confirmed, we could take up what we might do to
resolve the overlap.

The 4 overlapping elements are:

*       sub

*       p

*       [item 3]

*       [item 4]

Please advise your suggestion of next steps. Shall we log a formal
github request for SSML in HTML noting the above 4 pain points?

With thanks,

APA Chairs
Spoken Presentation Co-Facilitators
cc'd to various list archives

<end draft>





--

Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fjsajka&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C2aa6fb042dc9434cd4f108daabeffff1%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638011344533612956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GaQCSxxLc3w3R6o7cC0F8Vd24POdJjz1eu7LtgW9leY%3D&reserved=0>

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures     http://www.w3.org/wai/apa<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fwai%2Fapa&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C2aa6fb042dc9434cd4f108daabeffff1%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638011344533612956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=69dbnZ3Uh0cjmZjkG34mKbrmb50qAZsZw9F7ZdqYB%2Bs%3D&reserved=0>

Linux Foundation Fellow
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linuxfoundation.org%2Fboard-of-directors-2%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C2aa6fb042dc9434cd4f108daabeffff1%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638011344533612956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GReurw4nIkZZJHq8j2JBl5vI0uOLgXcUE4QhbDHZDcQ%3D&reserved=0>


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