- From: Matt Womer <mdw@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:28:18 -0500
- To: public-poiwg W3C <public-poiwg@w3.org>
Hi all,
The minutes from today's call are available here:
http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes
And as text below.
Action items were as follows:
Matt to put ID requirements in Wiki doc
Christine to invite Henning after Matt has put ID requirements in the wiki
Vinod to invite DERI expert after Matt has put ID requirements in the wiki
Vinod to represent one of our common use cases in linked data friendly way
Everyone to register for face to face, whether attending or not: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POI-F2F-2011-1/
Karl has put some effort into the category primitive too, let's review that work next week.
Thanks to all for attending, and thanks to Alex for scribing!
-M
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Points of Interest Working Group Teleconference
09 Mar 2011
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2011Mar/0004
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-irc
Attendees
Present
Vinod, Luca
Regrets
Jens
Chair
Matt
Scribe
ahill2
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]ID Primitive
2. [6]AR Landscape
3. [7]Administrative stuff
4. [8]Linked Data
5. [9]Hotel reservations
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 09 March 2011
<karls> i did draft the category primitive, still generating
representative examples today, will pub via email tonight
<karls> welcome
<matt> [11]Agenda
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2011Mar/0004
<matt> Scribe: ahill2
<karls> i have to exit after 1/2 H, sorry
ID Primitive
matt: lets do id talk first since Karl has to leave soon
<matt> [12]ID Primitive
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2011Feb/0028
<matt> ahill2: In the discussion it all sounds very reasonable,
about an ID primitive. My only concern: does a URI go against the
grain of efficiency, and against what people are thinking of with
IDs.
<cperey> sorry mute myself
<cperey> +q
<matt> karls: URIs helps protect us from clashing IDs. The same
model should be used for both places and locations though.
matt, I've got it
<karls> +1 to cperey
<Ronald> +1
christine: certainly other groups have have tackled this issue;
seems a bit premature for the 5 of use to weigh in solidly
<cperey> definitely do not have the knowledge in this domain
<cperey> I know that for personal identity there are hundreds of
people who work on it continuously
matt: the web is an existing system of decentralized system of
identifiers and is working pretty well
+1 to caputre in wiki
<karls> so we need a lead or small to team to research ID systems to
adopt or align with
<Luca> +1
<vinod> +1
<cperey> it's not in my scope +1
<matt> ACTION: Matt to put ID requirements in Wiki doc [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Put ID requirements in Wiki doc [on
Matt Womer - due 2011-03-16].
matt: proposed an action item to add the results of this ID to the
wiki
christine: I suggest (has worked in the past) to invite an expert
into our meeting on these topics we don't have experience with
vinod: I have some resources here that I can contact who know quite
a bit about URI
matt: I'll put together some resources from the current e-mail
thread
<matt> ACTION: cperey to invite Henning after Matt has put ID
requirements in the wiki [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Invite Henning after Matt has put ID
requirements in the wiki [on Christine Perey - due 2011-03-16].
<cperey> we can have the two speakers during the same session so
that they can hear one another
<matt> ACTION: vinod to invite DERI expert after Matt has put ID
requirements in the wiki [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Invite DERI expert after Matt has put
ID requirements in the wiki [on Vinod Hegde - due 2011-03-16].
christine: Vinod and I can then hand this document off to Henning
and Vinod's contacts
... suggests we schedule these two expert opinions on the same day
<matt> ahill2: We might need some consensus on where these ID are
going, are they on every primitive?
alex: can Karl clarify if he think each primitive needs an ID?
karl: place certainly needs it, location can be overloaded so it
might be nice to have an ID so it can be shared
<cperey> Category IDs is Henning's specialty
karl: category identifiers help make sure text descriptions refer to
the same category
<cperey> the IETF has been working on this as part of a WG
<cperey> probably GeoPriv?
<Ronald> +1 to have the same id mechanism where ids are needed
karl: I would move that we make our IDs share common traits among
the place, location and category IDs
christine: we should use somebody else's category ID
<cperey> do objects have IDs? what about the Internet of things?
christine: what about locations that change?
<matt> ahill2: Is it possible that a location can have an ID whose
values are changing?
<matt> ahill2: Maybe this is in some ways indicating a source of
location information, not that it is static?
<cperey> I dom't undertand
<matt> cperey: What good is it for it to be fixed in space if the ID
is changing?
<Ronald> +q
<matt> ahill2: I was suggesting the opposite, if the ID of a car or
something is changing then it is maybe reflective of it's location
changing.
<matt> cperey: That's an object
<matt> ahill2: I agree it's different than a fixed place like a
building, but I could imagine different authorities managing
different facilities, e.g. one for a building and another for a GPS
tracker.
<matt> cperey: Wouldn't that be the location primitive?
<matt> cperey: I thought an ID was fixed.
<matt> cperey: I thought with the ID I could share the object
between apps.
<matt> karls: We're confusing that a place and object has an ID with
the fact that the ?? has a ...
<matt> vinod: The URI could be the same but dereferrencing the URI
would give you the changing data.
<matt> karls: Here's the use case: five shoe stores in the same
shopping mall, each has it's own place URI, but they share a
location ID.
<matt> karls: Then there's the case of a delivery truck that has a
unique object ID and a location ID that renders where it is right
now.
<matt> vinod: If a location ID is a URI, then the service can always
update the data at the URI.
<matt> Ronald: I tend to agree with ahill2 that for sensors the ID
of the location primitive makes sense.
<matt> Ronald: The location primitive itself was not meant to be
only for fixed locations.
matt, I'll
get it
<matt> ahill2: Christine, do you feel this discussion satisfies what
she's looking for in a POI?
<karls> have to sign off, have a good day
<matt> cperey: I'll have to see it in writing, but my sense is that
there are sub IDs
<matt> ahill2: One ID is about the POI, one is about the location
(e.g. a sensor, a source, an authority)
<matt> cperey: So they are nested.
<matt> ahill2: Yes. I was asking Karl about that.. There will still
be this primary ID that is the POI id.
matt: OK, moving on to the next topic
vinod, how do you spell your institution/
AR Landscape
<vinod> Digital Enterprise Research Institute
thanks
<matt> [16]AR Landscape Browsers
[16] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/AR_Landscape/Browsers
<cperey> first I've looked at it
matt: Jonathan has added some info about the AR browsers that are
out there
<cperey> review it now
can we get an overview of what was added?
jonathan: can we move this to the last topic?
Administrative stuff
<matt> [17]Next F2F Registration
[17] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POI-F2F-2011-1/
<cperey> Matt, I have an item to add to admin topics
matt: the registration form is up, please fill it out whether
attending or not - hotel, days attending
<matt> [18]F2F meeting page
[18] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Face_to_Face_Meetings/March_2011
matt: reminder 29th-31st of March, agenda is entirely TBD
<cperey> for the agenda, is it appropriate to call for papers?
<cperey> OK
cperey: is a call for papers appropriate?
<cperey> +q
matt: like in December, we will keep this focused on a working
meeting
<matt> [19]DST reminder
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2011JanMar/0060
matt: US & Canada moving clocks forward on the 13th and then Europe
2 weeks later
... for the next 2 weeks the meeting is 1 hour different
cprerey: is it 5 or 7 horus now?
cperey; right now we are 6 hours apart and for those two weeks we
are only 5 hours apart - so1 hours earlier for Europe
<cperey> +q
cperey: in Barcelona there was the AR Standards Meeting but nobody
from the W3C meeting was there
... we didn't have any contribution from the POI group
... the next AR Standards Meeting is likely to be between 12th and
18th of June
... in Taiwan
cprerey: I am making an invitation to the POI group to present their
work at this meeting
+1 to move topic to next week
matt: sorry for mangling the link, lets move this topic to next week
+q
Linked Data
<matt> [20]Linked Data discussion starts here
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2011Feb/0026
vinod: in the PDFs I attached I am trying to highlight the kind of
complex queries that are possible with linked data
... we need to have semantics and structure to handle these complex
queries
<matt> [21]Vinod's advantages to Linked Data use in POI
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2011Feb/0027
vinod: the linked data allows extended data
+q
<matt> ahill2: We've been trying to address extending the POI data,
and so I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
<matt> ahill2: Is this the same thing, or does linked data have
greater extensibility?
<matt> vinod: Having a standard structure so that queries can be
made. I'm talking about the content, rather than the delivery.
<matt> ahill2: When you say structure, I'm thinking you can take on
any data to an XML representation. Are you saying that isn't
structured because we don't have a structure or schema and so then
you can't do complex queries on it?
<matt> vinod: Correct, that's what I'm saying.
<matt> vinod: If you consider a person as a POI, he has different
attributes than an historical POI.
<matt> vinod: If complex queries have to be supported then there
must be semantics.
<matt> ahill2: Not arguing against linked data, but trying to
understand what it gives. Can't you add data that comes along with
it's own schema through XML and namespaces? As long as the
fundamental unit, a POI is simple enough, then can't the namespace
facilitate that?
<matt> vinod: You can do some conversions, but linked data makes
complex queries possible. What tools we use, e.g. relational
database to RDF.
<matt> ahill2: I tend to agree that linked data helps you query
sources for additional information, that's the power of it.
<matt> vinod: If you don't have a standard structure then there are
different names for attributes, etc.
<matt> ahill2: So, through things like an XML schema with a
namespace, can't you get some of this functionality out of XML?
<matt> vinod: There's ontologies, representing data in an object.
<matt> ahill2: This process can occur without linked data though,
right?
<matt> vinod: If we have a standard ontology adopted, we can support
complex queries.
<matt> ahill2: For those of us who aren't familiar with linked data,
when I looked at the linked data representations, they look kind of
complex. What is the most simple POI case?
<matt>
<matt> vinod: If you consider a person, you represent him in the
FOAF ontology and then you can consider him in an AR context by
adding POI attributes.
<matt> ahill2: Basically linking up data with location as indicated
in fifth slide.
<matt> vinod: Anything could be a POI, but we could have AR metadata
outside of the POI core.
<matt> vinod: The AR attributes are for rendering in an AR browser.
<matt> ahill2: It seems to me that it might be useful for the group
to have an example that is similar to the use cases that we're used
to.
<matt> ahill2: e.g. the fast food restaurant in this municipality in
this mall is a restaurant.
<matt> ahill2: Contrast it to a typical XML representation or an RDB
format.
<matt> ACTION: vinod to represent one of our common use cases in
linked data friendly way [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Represent one of our common use cases
in linked data friendly way [on Vinod Hegde - due 2011-03-16].
+1 to closing topic
Hotel reservations
<matt> ahill2: Did anyone get a response from the hotel email?
<matt> Ronald: The hotel has received some reservations.
<cperey> bye
<Ronald> bye
<JonathanJ> bye
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: cperey to invite Henning after Matt has put ID
requirements in the wiki [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Matt to put ID requirements in Wiki doc [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: vinod to invite DERI expert after Matt has put ID
requirements in the wiki [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: vinod to represent one of our common use cases in
linked data friendly way [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2011/03/09-poiwg-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
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Received on Wednesday, 9 March 2011 23:41:48 UTC