Minutes from PEWG meeting 27 August 2025

Dear all,

the minutes from today's meeting are available at 
https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-minutes.html and copied below:


PEWG
27 August 2025

Agenda: 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20250827T110000/
IRC log: https://www.w3.org/2025/08/27-pointerevents-irc

Attendees
flackr, gastonr, mustaq, Patrick_H_Lauke, smaug

Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke


* Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / 
https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned

* Recharter w3c/strategy#515

* any interesting issues/PRs to discuss?



# Web Platform Tests https://wpt.live/pointerevents/ / 
https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=experimental&label=master&aligned

Patrick: We discussed last time, Gaston you were going to look over the 
WPT harness problems. did you have time?

gaston: i looked over the various failing tests. seems there's a lot of 
assertions throwing in firefox due to lack of pen support in the 
harness. also a lot of timeouts in safari, so tests are hanging up. 
there were a few tests failing with assertions throwing rather than 
failing. in chromium, there was a directory for pointerlock tests, and 
we have an exception with the browser because the root of the document 
was not va[CUT]

ointerlock

Olli: think there was proposal for interop to improve touch event 
testing. but we have overall pointer and mouse interop issues, but we've 
not been looking at all those other issues for touch and pen

Olli: wonder if we should have that as interop 2026? i think touch is 
more important than pen

mustaq: at least TPAC there were rumours about improve touch testing. 
don't know more

gaston: if you want, i can send writeup to the irc

<gastonr> - In Firefox, pen events are not supported: error: Action 
action_sequence failed: Error: Unimplemented pointerMove for pointerType 
pen 
(https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=firefox%3Aerror)

<gastonr> - A lot of the tests that time out in Firefox and Safari have 
either touch-action:none or pointer-events: none. It seems like they 
aren't handling that case well.

<gastonr> - A lot of the Safari ERROR results are due to a crash in the 
python script with webdriver.error.MoveTargetOutOfBoundsException: move 
target out of bounds (500) (https://pastebin.com/CeEhKDeK) (most of the 
pointerevent_touch-action-xyz tests do this) safari:error wpt.fyi query

<gastonr> 
(https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=safari%3Aerror)

<gastonr> - For safari, pointerevent_attributes.html?touch throws an 
error because of the unhandled promise of a rejected assert_equals

<gastonr> - For Safari, 
pointerevent_pointerrawupdate_changes_pointer_capture.https.html and 
pointerevent_capture_mouse_and_release_and_capture_again.html throw the 
exception: JavaScript exception occured: 
window.__wptrunner_process_next_event is not a function.. I think it's 
interesting that the other browsers don't have that issue, but it seems 
that for

<gastonr> one pointerevent test in chromium we did see this problem: 
pointerevent_pointerleave_after_pointercancel_touch-expected.txt

<gastonr> -In Chromium, pointerlock/ tests fail because the browser 
throws the exception: "The root document of this element is not valid 
for pointer lock" 
(https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerlock?label=master&label=experimental&aligned)

Patrick: if we know what the shortcomings are, is there a path forward 
for fixes to WPT? is it down to us to fix, or is there somebody we need 
to harrangue?

Rob: i think we agree that touch is more important than pen, and there 
seem to be efforts to fix these. once touch is sorted, we should be able 
to get to pen ones

Rob: out of the list that gaston posted, we can ignore pen support for 
now. touch event stuff seem like they should be working, so we should 
give those tests some attention

Patrick: so should we do action to look at this?

Olli: interop 2026 opening proposals soon, should submit a proposal for this

Mustaq: is Firefox going to propose it?

Olli: not discussed yet, but think Masayuki proposed for last time?

ACTION: Olli to raise possibility of touch test fixes for interop 2026 
from Mozilla side



# Recharter w3c/strategy#515

<smaug> Gecko has internal 
https://searchfox.org/firefox-main/source/dom/webidl/SimpleGestureEvent.webidl

[the group discusses idea of potentially adding gesture handling to IN 
SCOPE for the group's charter]

Philippe: are there any existing APIs that you would want to point to 
and say "this is what we want to standardise?"

Rob: we have internal gesture recognisers in browser code, but no 
existing API that's already there

Philippe: want to avoid having to start from scratch, as otherwise this 
needs to be incubated separate first

Patrick: the old API in webkit 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/GestureEvent

Patrick: hammer.js https://hammerjs.github.io/

Patrick: not married to any particular syntax/approach - whether one 
single event (which then has an attribute for the type of gesture), or 
separate events for each gesture like hammer

Olli: would this then all be in our single pointer events spec, or would 
it be in a separate spec? and then we have UI events still without an 
editor...

Patrick: good question here... Philippe, would we as a group be able to 
separate out the gesture stuff in a separate document, or are we only 
chartered to work on one spec document?

Philippe: we could put it in charter as a separate document, but if we 
want to change our mind later we can integrate it

ACTION: Patrick to review/add any more info to the Recharter 
w3c/strategy#515 issue before Philippe takes it forward

ACTION: Patrick to make PR against charter for #515



# any interesting issues/PRs to discuss?

Mustaq: I have one interop 2025 test

<mustaq> web-platform-tests/wpt#53685

Mustaq: tried to tweak before, until i realised Firefox failed. then 
tweaked again, and it should work

[mustaq and olli talk over the PR]

Patrick: if there's nothing else, thank you all as ever. We'll readjurn 
in two weeks' time



# Summary of action items

* Olli to raise possibility of touch test fixes for interop 2026 from 
Mozilla side
* Patrick to review/add any more info to the Recharter w3c/strategy#515 
issue before Philippe takes it forward
* Patrick to make PR against charter for #515


-- 
Patrick H. Lauke

* https://www.splintered.co.uk/
* https://github.com/patrickhlauke
* https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
* https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke

Received on Wednesday, 27 August 2025 15:52:08 UTC