Minutes from PEWG meeting 6 November 2024

Dear all,

the minutes from today's meeting are at 
https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-pointerevents-minutes.html and copied below:


PEWG
06 November 2024

Agenda: 
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20241106T110000/
IRC log: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-pointerevents-irc

Attendees:
adettenb, flackr1, mustaq, Olga, Patrick_H_Lauke, smaug

Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe: Patrick_H_Lauke


* Ensure predicted events only use input from the current partition 
w3c/pointerevents#518

* Limit the precision of floating point event fields w3c/pointerevents#517

* [touch actions] handwriting manipulation type to distinguish panning 
w3c/pointerevents#516

* Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 #445 
w3c/pointerevents#445

* Triage unlabelled issues 
https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Afuture+-label%3Av3++-label%3Av3-blocking


# Ensure predicted events only use input from the current partition 
w3c/pointerevents#518

Patrick: I've now submitted a pull request

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#518

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#527

Rob: I'm happy with that as is



# Limit the precision of floating point event fields w3c/pointerevents#517

Rob: that one still waiting on me

ACTION: Rob to draft an initial PR for this



# [touch actions] handwriting manipulation type to distinguish panning 
w3c/pointerevents#516

<mustaq> We have a PR already: w3c/pointerevents#525

Patrick: wanted to check one of my concerns - because of the way 
touch-action defines what a user agent CAN handle, would creating a new 
value for handwriting mean that if they already use touch-action, and 
they hadn't included this new value, it means that any site will 
suppress handwriting until they update their touch-action definitions

Olga: yes that's a shortcoming of the way touch-action works

Rob: yes, we can mitigate this partly though if we say that handwriting 
is implicit/part of "manipulation" for instance

mustaq: i started reviewing the pull request, but not completed

Rob: we could see if we can gather data - if we implemented this today, 
how many sites would be affected? (use touch-action, and would 
implicitly suppress handwriting because they didn't have that value yet 
to add)

Olga: realistically we'll need a few months to gather this data

Rob: we should be able to get this data from canary users. they don't 
need to have a stylus, we can just run a test of "how many fields that 
would normally be handwriting eligible would not get this because of the 
defined touch-action in the page")

Olli: I also wonder more fundamentally "what does it mean that something 
is eligible for handwriting"

Olli: such as what happens to focus ... if focus moved automatically 
into a text field if handwriting started near it and is allowed by the 
touch action

Olli: contenteditable, text areas ... many related aspects

Olli: may not just be a CSS WG issue

mustaq: focus is defined in HTML?

Olli: content editing working group may also be affected...

Olga: so far we thought this feature would be just hooking into the 
platform, is there more that needs to be done?

Rob: there's aspects, like with scrolling, where "the platform will do 
something" which is beyond what we can define in the spec

Patrick: would certainly be good to add a note to say clearly that the 
PE spec does not want to define how handwriting works, what happens 
specifically, as it's OS dependent. but yes mention that there will be 
considerations about focus potentially moving, input events being fired, 
but that it's outside of the PE scope itself

Olli: info should also be in the explainer

Olga: for edge with implemented handwriting as a text input attribute. 
then published intent to prototype, but it was not accepted. which is 
why we're now trying to do it via touch-action

Rob: I was the one who wasn't in favour of the intent to prototype. i 
don't know if anybody from editing looked at it. my main concern is that 
for many of the use cases, it's about authors saying that they want to 
handle handwriting, but that for that scenario we suggested to authors 
in the past doing touch-action:none (so that it can be handled by them, 
rather than scrolling/panning)

mustaq: yeah I think this is slightly different though, as it's a 
special case of IME ...

Olga: in terms of next action we'll add use counter to get data, and add 
information to explainer how it works in different platforms, what 
happens to focus, and use cases where handwriting detection is not desired

Rob: keeping it high level - you start writing, it detects that you're 
writing, focuses the nearby input, and fires IME events

Olga: we'll present it to editing working group, maybe also html working 
group (as original idea was to use html attribute, so they could give 
some extra feedback on that approach)

Olli: html attribute is slightly more specific/much nicer, compared to 
CSS which is a bit more handwavy

Rob: maybe a hybrid approach of html attribute AND some touch-action 
hook / make touch-action aware of handwriting

<mustaq> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues for HTML?

ACTION: Olga to present to editing working group, html working group, 
looking at getting usage counter, expand explainer



# Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 #445 
w3c/pointerevents#445

Rob: asked if mustaq can pick this one up, not had much time. no update 
right now

ACTION: mustaq to look at outstanding w3c/pointerevents#300 issue



# Triage unlabelled issues 
https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Afuture+-label%3Av3++-label%3Av3-blocking

Olli: looked at some of these before meeting. one can probably be closed 
depending on what masayuki thinks.

Olli: DOM integration one is interesting. think our spec is already 
clear enough (?)

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#513

Patrick: last comment on that from Olli

Olli: I should make a PR for that

Patrick: do we think it's v3 or future

ACTION: Olli to look at w3c/pointerevents#513 and do a PR

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#511 is the one you mentioned earlier about 
masayuki

Olli: would be good to get somebody from Chrome's side to look at this

Patrick: leave unlabelled for now until we work out if there's any 
action on our part?

Olli: fine

Rob: fine

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#510

Patrick: do we know what this would entail? does it need clarification 
in spec?

Olli: I think it's fine as is, but would be nice to have more tests

Patrick: w3c/pointerevents#509

Patrick: same question - do we think this needs further 
clarification/work in the spec?

Olli: again, i think pointermove is a separate event...

Rob: yes, completely separate, and has its own hit testing

Rob: might be a case where ... we dispatch pointerrawupdate also for 
final position of pointer, which could be the same sort of event for 
pointermove... i forget the details, but because the frequency is higher 
they *could* have different targets...

Olli: but it would still be sent somewhere...

Rob: similar to question of what happens to click during the up event

Olli: different to an extent. this is more about whether pointermove is 
completely separate

Patrick: so do we need to spell this out more explicitly?

Rob: i think per spec they are separate events, so shouldn't need 
clarification?

Olli: yes i wasn't sure about what masayuki says about the paragraphs 
*implying* anything

ACTION: Olli to possibly double-check about w3c/pointerevents#509 
whether it needs further explicit clarification / check what the 
"implied" thing is

Patrick: will chase up Philippe about w3c/pointerevents#506 just to check

Patrick: thank you all, we'll reconvene in 2 weeks' time. in meantime, 
look after yourselves and your mental health in light of recent world 
events...



Summary of action items:

* Rob to draft an initial PR for this
* Olga to present to editing working group, html working group, looking 
at getting usage counter, expand explainer
* mustaq to look at outstanding w3c/pointerevents#300 issue
* Olli to look at w3c/pointerevents#513 and do a PR
* Olli to possibly double-check about w3c/pointerevents#509 whether it 
needs further explicit clarification / check what the "implied" thing is

-- 
Patrick H. Lauke

* https://www.splintered.co.uk/
* https://github.com/patrickhlauke
* https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
* https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke

Received on Wednesday, 6 November 2024 17:04:05 UTC