- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 12:08:55 -0500
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the February 5 voice conference are available at
<http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html> and copied below.
WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before 12 February 2013. In
the absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.
-AB
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Pointer Events WG Voice Conference
05 Feb 2013
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0061.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-irc
Attendees
Present
Art_Barstow, Scott_Gonzalez, Matt_Brubeck,
Doug_Schepers, Jacob_Rossi, Asir_Vedamuthu, Cathy_Chan
Regrets
Rick_Byers, Olli_Pettay
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Agenda
2. [6]Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface
3. [7]Mapping for devices that don't support hover and
CSS :hover; bug 20222
4. [8]Transformed Pointer Coordinates?
5. [9]PE spec comments by Cathy
6. [10]Pointer events – active buttons state & pen
devices
7. [11]Pointer Events Open Bugs
8. [12]Any other Business
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> Scribe: Art
<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
Date: 5 February 2013
<mbrubeck> Good morning, Art.
Agenda
AB: I posted a draft agenda a couple of days ago
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0061.html. Since then there has been a relatively
significant amount of activity on various agenda topics.
... we could now try to sort out what needs to be dropped,
changed, added; or, it could be more time efficient to just
stick with the draft agenda and adjust it accordingly as we
proceed.
... we can also add a discussion about LC plans to the AoB
section.
... is that OK? Any other proposed additions
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0061.html.
JR: want to walk through some of my e-mails
AB: sure, that's fine
Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface
AB: this topic was raised by Rick a few weeks ago
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0024.html and we talked about it last week
[16]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/29-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite
m02.
... it appears we still need feedback from Rick so I propose we
postpone this topic and I can assign an Action to Rick to
reply to this thread. OK?
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0024.html
[16] http://www.w3.org/2013/01/29-pointerevents-minutes.html#item02.
JR: I think that's fine
… I raised this issue and if it takes some more time that's
fine
… I dont think it will require changes to PE spec
… but perhaps some spec in HTML and/or WebApps
<scribe> ACTION: Rick reply to the "Making click/contextmenu
use PointerEvent interface" thread [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - Reply to the "Making
click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface" thread [on Rick
Byers - due 2013-02-12].
Mapping for devices that don't support hover and CSS :hover; bug
20222
AB: the hover issue is documented in bug 20222
[18]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20222 and
Rick started a related thread
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0041.html.
... an issue is whether or not the current text regarding hover
is overly restrictive (given hover's usage `in the wild`). And
there is also an issue about making sure v1 doesn't preclude us
from doing
[18] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20222
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0041.html.
… something about this in v2
AB: we postponed this topic last week because Rick was not
present. He followed up yesterday
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0067.html and then Jacob replied.
... it appears the way forward is: a) to leave text as is for
v1; and b) to add hover to the list of potential features for
v2.
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0067.html
JR: I stated the right approach on the list
… think some experimentation is still needed here
… want a general solution
… Rick and I agree this is a tough problem to solve generally
… and that doing something in v2 may be the right thing to do
<mbrubeck> I also support punting any changes to v2.
MB: I support leaving current text as is and potentially doing
something in v2
SG: agree
DS: fine with that but it should be called out because it is an
Accessiblity issue
JR: that's fair
… I can add a related note
… identify the problem but note we don't have a solution
… Hover has always been an a11y issue
… It is worth noting PE doesn't fix this issue nor make it
worse
AB: so Jacob will add some non-normative text
… and also close 20222
… is that correct?
JR: yes
<scribe> ACTION: Jacob close bug 20222 per the 5-Feb-2013
resolution [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - Close bug 20222 per the
5-Feb-2013 resolution [on Jacob Rossi - due 2013-02-12].
<scribe> ACTION: Jacob add some non-normative text for 20222
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - Add some non-normative text for
20222 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2013-02-12].
Transformed Pointer Coordinates?
AB: Doug Schepers started the conversation via
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0046.html. Based on that discussion, Jacob opened a
bug for the CSSOM View
[24]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20832 spec.
... it appears there is nothing we need to do for the PE spec.
Is that correct?
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0046.html.
[24] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20832
DS: yes, that's correct
… the result is that people have some ideas
… they agree it is not a PE issue but an issue for CSSOM spec
RESOLUTION: the "Transformed Pointer Coordinates" issue will be
addressed in other specs (not the Pointer Events spec)
PE spec comments by Cathy
AB: Cathy asked some question about the PE spec
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0057.html
... Jacob replied yesterday
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0072.html. He suggests two comments are mostly
editorial and he added two new bugs:
... 1. "PREVENT MOUSE EVENT flag should be per pointer type"
[27]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872
... 2. "Pointercancel should also implicitly release capture"
[28]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0057.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0072.html.
[27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872
[28] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873
JR: this was good feedback
… I can walk through them
… #1 how many pointers can be the primary pointer at once
… there can in theory be many devices
… but in reality, don't see many devices used at once
… End up having mouse events fighting each other
… We considered device arbitration
… but we didn't go that route
DS: if a game has a tablet and 2 people and each person has an
input device - does this work?
JR: absolutely
… primary gives UA a rule for multitouch to determine which
device wins
DS: do you have some code to demonstrate this? If yes, that
would be great to show during W3Conf
JR: ok; I can look into that
... if anyone has feedback on other scenarios like that, please
send email
... ok, Cathy's comment #2
… the spec will need to be changed
… it's a simple change
… filed bug 20872
… [29]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872
[29] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872
… I proposed changes in
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0072.html
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0072.html
<Cathy> Looks fine to me.
AB: any comments re Jacob's proposal for #2?
JR: re Cathy's comment #3 ...
… agree the text is a bit convoluted
… I can clarify this text
… I didn't open up a bug because the fix is relatively easy
JR: re Cathy's comment #4
… there is a scenario missing from the spec
… for pointer cancel
… I opened bug 20873 for that
[31]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=208723
[31] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=208723
… will make a simple text change to fix this
AB: sounds good to me
<asir> Correct link is
[32]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873
[32] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873
CC: yes, that's good
Pointer events – active buttons state & pen devices
AB: Tim Bannister asked about how PEs work with pen devices and
buttons
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0052.html
... Jacob replied yesterday
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0069.html.
... it appears this was mostly a request for clarification and
that no spec change is needed. Is that correct?
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0052.html
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0069.html.
JR: yes
… I haven't seen the behaviour Tim described
… the button is just a modifier
AB: any comments?
… ok, then we consider that resolved
Pointer Events Open Bugs
AB: the only open bug [35]http://tinyurl.com/Bugs-PointerEvents
we haven't talked about is 20109 that Jacob reopened yesterday
[36]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109
... Jacob's comment
[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0073.html
[35] http://tinyurl.com/Bugs-PointerEvents
[36] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0073.html
JR: this is the mouse emulating pressure bug
… we realize that in most pen apps, for max pressure for the
pen correlates to greather than normal stroke width
… half-pressure would be "normal" pressure
… if use something like Msft Paint, a line is .5 pressure
… We changed the spec about a month ago
… changed from .5 to 1
… Need to think about other properties e.g. tiltX, tiltY,
width, height
… Can leave it up to impls to decide
… If we emulate one prop, we should emulate the other
properties too
… We are proposing : mouse should be .5 rather 1 for pressue
… spec now use MAY for width and height and we think it should
be SHOULD
MB: if max should be twice default pressure but in Msft doc
it's 1.5 times
JR: the documentation is correct, I made an error in my e-mail
MB: ok, thanks
… I agree with the proposal to change this to SHOULD
… we need consistency with the defaults
… otherwise, get interop problems
… so having consistent defaults is a good idea
AB: any other comments
<mbrubeck> Rationale: If developers test only in browsers with
a default value, they might not realize their program has a
divide-by-zero bug or other bugs, in browsers without a nonzero
default.
AB: so do we ask Jacob to change this now?
JR: I can make the change and then ask Rick and Olli if they
have any concerns
<scribe> ACTION: Jacob apply your proposed change to bug 20109
and ask the group for comments [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Apply your proposed change to
bug 20109 and ask the group for comments [on Jacob Rossi - due
2013-02-12].
<asir> [39]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20217
[39] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20217
AB: anything else on the spec before AoB
JR: re touch-action
<asir> You can find Rick's response
[40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0067.html
[40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0067.html
… Rick replied and was OK with the proposal
Any other Business
AB: re LC, it appears we have 3 open bugs (20109, 20872 and
20873). If we still want to get a LC published on Feb 19, we
should be in a position to discuss this transition during our
Feb 12 call. That means we need proposed fixes for these bugs
`real soon now`.
... I think we are in pretty good shape
AV: we are still waiting for Rick's input on the context menu
issue
AB: oh yes, good point
DS: can someone make sure Rick knows that?
AB: I already have an action to contact Rick
DS: would be good to get the bugs fixed as soon as we can
JR: yes, I'm on it
AB: if you have any comments regarding the IndieUI: Events 1.0
FPWD
[41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013JanMar/0059.html, please send them to
public-indie-ui-comments @ w3.org.
... and news regarding implementations?
[41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0059.html
AV: call next week?
AB: yes, to record consensus to publish LC
DS: re W3Conf ...
… if people have implementation info we can share, that would
be good
… would be good if JQuery would create a blog about their plans
related to Pointer Events
… then Jacob could mention that during his presentation
… it would send a good message
SG: yes, I'll talk to others in jQuery
DS: are there any especially cool demos that Jacob could
potentially use during his preso?
JR: yes, proposals welcome [and slides ;-)]
DS: think a two-player game would be nice
<mbrubeck> Air hockey, e.g.
JR: we worked with Atari on some games like pong and those
games use pointer events
AV: what about a call on Feb 19?
AB: yes, that's fine with me
... so we will have a call next week if there is something to
discuss other than a CfC to publish LC
… if LC is the only topic, I will use email and a short review
period - like 1 or 2 days
AB: meeting adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob add some non-normative text for 20222
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob apply your proposed change to bug 20109 and
ask the group for comments [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob close bug 20222 per the 5-Feb-2013
resolution [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
[NEW] ACTION: Rick reply to the "Making click/contextmenu use
PointerEvent interface" thread [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 5 February 2013 17:09:14 UTC