- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 12:08:55 -0500
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the February 5 voice conference are available at <http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html> and copied below. WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send them to the public-pointer-events mail list before 12 February 2013. In the absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved. -AB [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - Pointer Events WG Voice Conference 05 Feb 2013 [2]Agenda [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0061.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-irc Attendees Present Art_Barstow, Scott_Gonzalez, Matt_Brubeck, Doug_Schepers, Jacob_Rossi, Asir_Vedamuthu, Cathy_Chan Regrets Rick_Byers, Olli_Pettay Chair Art Scribe Art Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Agenda 2. [6]Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface 3. [7]Mapping for devices that don't support hover and CSS :hover; bug 20222 4. [8]Transformed Pointer Coordinates? 5. [9]PE spec comments by Cathy 6. [10]Pointer events – active buttons state & pen devices 7. [11]Pointer Events Open Bugs 8. [12]Any other Business * [13]Summary of Action Items __________________________________________________________ <scribe> Scribe: Art <scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB Date: 5 February 2013 <mbrubeck> Good morning, Art. Agenda AB: I posted a draft agenda a couple of days ago [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0061.html. Since then there has been a relatively significant amount of activity on various agenda topics. ... we could now try to sort out what needs to be dropped, changed, added; or, it could be more time efficient to just stick with the draft agenda and adjust it accordingly as we proceed. ... we can also add a discussion about LC plans to the AoB section. ... is that OK? Any other proposed additions [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0061.html. JR: want to walk through some of my e-mails AB: sure, that's fine Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface AB: this topic was raised by Rick a few weeks ago [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0024.html and we talked about it last week [16]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/29-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite m02. ... it appears we still need feedback from Rick so I propose we postpone this topic and I can assign an Action to Rick to reply to this thread. OK? [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0024.html [16] http://www.w3.org/2013/01/29-pointerevents-minutes.html#item02. JR: I think that's fine … I raised this issue and if it takes some more time that's fine … I dont think it will require changes to PE spec … but perhaps some spec in HTML and/or WebApps <scribe> ACTION: Rick reply to the "Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface" thread [recorded in [17]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - Reply to the "Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface" thread [on Rick Byers - due 2013-02-12]. Mapping for devices that don't support hover and CSS :hover; bug 20222 AB: the hover issue is documented in bug 20222 [18]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20222 and Rick started a related thread [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0041.html. ... an issue is whether or not the current text regarding hover is overly restrictive (given hover's usage `in the wild`). And there is also an issue about making sure v1 doesn't preclude us from doing [18] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20222 [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0041.html. … something about this in v2 AB: we postponed this topic last week because Rick was not present. He followed up yesterday [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0067.html and then Jacob replied. ... it appears the way forward is: a) to leave text as is for v1; and b) to add hover to the list of potential features for v2. [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0067.html JR: I stated the right approach on the list … think some experimentation is still needed here … want a general solution … Rick and I agree this is a tough problem to solve generally … and that doing something in v2 may be the right thing to do <mbrubeck> I also support punting any changes to v2. MB: I support leaving current text as is and potentially doing something in v2 SG: agree DS: fine with that but it should be called out because it is an Accessiblity issue JR: that's fair … I can add a related note … identify the problem but note we don't have a solution … Hover has always been an a11y issue … It is worth noting PE doesn't fix this issue nor make it worse AB: so Jacob will add some non-normative text … and also close 20222 … is that correct? JR: yes <scribe> ACTION: Jacob close bug 20222 per the 5-Feb-2013 resolution [recorded in [21]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion02] <trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - Close bug 20222 per the 5-Feb-2013 resolution [on Jacob Rossi - due 2013-02-12]. <scribe> ACTION: Jacob add some non-normative text for 20222 [recorded in [22]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion03] <trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - Add some non-normative text for 20222 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2013-02-12]. Transformed Pointer Coordinates? AB: Doug Schepers started the conversation via [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0046.html. Based on that discussion, Jacob opened a bug for the CSSOM View [24]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20832 spec. ... it appears there is nothing we need to do for the PE spec. Is that correct? [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0046.html. [24] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20832 DS: yes, that's correct … the result is that people have some ideas … they agree it is not a PE issue but an issue for CSSOM spec RESOLUTION: the "Transformed Pointer Coordinates" issue will be addressed in other specs (not the Pointer Events spec) PE spec comments by Cathy AB: Cathy asked some question about the PE spec [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0057.html ... Jacob replied yesterday [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0072.html. He suggests two comments are mostly editorial and he added two new bugs: ... 1. "PREVENT MOUSE EVENT flag should be per pointer type" [27]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872 ... 2. "Pointercancel should also implicitly release capture" [28]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873 [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0057.html [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0072.html. [27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872 [28] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873 JR: this was good feedback … I can walk through them … #1 how many pointers can be the primary pointer at once … there can in theory be many devices … but in reality, don't see many devices used at once … End up having mouse events fighting each other … We considered device arbitration … but we didn't go that route DS: if a game has a tablet and 2 people and each person has an input device - does this work? JR: absolutely … primary gives UA a rule for multitouch to determine which device wins DS: do you have some code to demonstrate this? If yes, that would be great to show during W3Conf JR: ok; I can look into that ... if anyone has feedback on other scenarios like that, please send email ... ok, Cathy's comment #2 … the spec will need to be changed … it's a simple change … filed bug 20872 … [29]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872 [29] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20872 … I proposed changes in [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0072.html [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0072.html <Cathy> Looks fine to me. AB: any comments re Jacob's proposal for #2? JR: re Cathy's comment #3 ... … agree the text is a bit convoluted … I can clarify this text … I didn't open up a bug because the fix is relatively easy JR: re Cathy's comment #4 … there is a scenario missing from the spec … for pointer cancel … I opened bug 20873 for that [31]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=208723 [31] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=208723 … will make a simple text change to fix this AB: sounds good to me <asir> Correct link is [32]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873 [32] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20873 CC: yes, that's good Pointer events – active buttons state & pen devices AB: Tim Bannister asked about how PEs work with pen devices and buttons [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0052.html ... Jacob replied yesterday [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0069.html. ... it appears this was mostly a request for clarification and that no spec change is needed. Is that correct? [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0052.html [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0069.html. JR: yes … I haven't seen the behaviour Tim described … the button is just a modifier AB: any comments? … ok, then we consider that resolved Pointer Events Open Bugs AB: the only open bug [35]http://tinyurl.com/Bugs-PointerEvents we haven't talked about is 20109 that Jacob reopened yesterday [36]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109 ... Jacob's comment [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0073.html [35] http://tinyurl.com/Bugs-PointerEvents [36] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109 [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0073.html JR: this is the mouse emulating pressure bug … we realize that in most pen apps, for max pressure for the pen correlates to greather than normal stroke width … half-pressure would be "normal" pressure … if use something like Msft Paint, a line is .5 pressure … We changed the spec about a month ago … changed from .5 to 1 … Need to think about other properties e.g. tiltX, tiltY, width, height … Can leave it up to impls to decide … If we emulate one prop, we should emulate the other properties too … We are proposing : mouse should be .5 rather 1 for pressue … spec now use MAY for width and height and we think it should be SHOULD MB: if max should be twice default pressure but in Msft doc it's 1.5 times JR: the documentation is correct, I made an error in my e-mail MB: ok, thanks … I agree with the proposal to change this to SHOULD … we need consistency with the defaults … otherwise, get interop problems … so having consistent defaults is a good idea AB: any other comments <mbrubeck> Rationale: If developers test only in browsers with a default value, they might not realize their program has a divide-by-zero bug or other bugs, in browsers without a nonzero default. AB: so do we ask Jacob to change this now? JR: I can make the change and then ask Rick and Olli if they have any concerns <scribe> ACTION: Jacob apply your proposed change to bug 20109 and ask the group for comments [recorded in [38]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion04] <trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Apply your proposed change to bug 20109 and ask the group for comments [on Jacob Rossi - due 2013-02-12]. <asir> [39]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20217 [39] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20217 AB: anything else on the spec before AoB JR: re touch-action <asir> You can find Rick's response [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0067.html [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0067.html … Rick replied and was OK with the proposal Any other Business AB: re LC, it appears we have 3 open bugs (20109, 20872 and 20873). If we still want to get a LC published on Feb 19, we should be in a position to discuss this transition during our Feb 12 call. That means we need proposed fixes for these bugs `real soon now`. ... I think we are in pretty good shape AV: we are still waiting for Rick's input on the context menu issue AB: oh yes, good point DS: can someone make sure Rick knows that? AB: I already have an action to contact Rick DS: would be good to get the bugs fixed as soon as we can JR: yes, I'm on it AB: if you have any comments regarding the IndieUI: Events 1.0 FPWD [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013JanMar/0059.html, please send them to public-indie-ui-comments @ w3.org. ... and news regarding implementations? [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013JanMar/0059.html AV: call next week? AB: yes, to record consensus to publish LC DS: re W3Conf ... … if people have implementation info we can share, that would be good … would be good if JQuery would create a blog about their plans related to Pointer Events … then Jacob could mention that during his presentation … it would send a good message SG: yes, I'll talk to others in jQuery DS: are there any especially cool demos that Jacob could potentially use during his preso? JR: yes, proposals welcome [and slides ;-)] DS: think a two-player game would be nice <mbrubeck> Air hockey, e.g. JR: we worked with Atari on some games like pong and those games use pointer events AV: what about a call on Feb 19? AB: yes, that's fine with me ... so we will have a call next week if there is something to discuss other than a CfC to publish LC … if LC is the only topic, I will use email and a short review period - like 1 or 2 days AB: meeting adjourned Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Jacob add some non-normative text for 20222 [recorded in [42]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion03] [NEW] ACTION: Jacob apply your proposed change to bug 20109 and ask the group for comments [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion04] [NEW] ACTION: Jacob close bug 20222 per the 5-Feb-2013 resolution [recorded in [44]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion02] [NEW] ACTION: Rick reply to the "Making click/contextmenu use PointerEvent interface" thread [recorded in [45]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/05-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion01] [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 5 February 2013 17:09:14 UTC