- From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:09:11 +0000
- To: W3C POE WG <public-poe-wg@w3.org>
The minutes of today's meeting are at
https://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes with a text summary below.
Thank you Jo for scribing.
P&OE Weekly
24 Mar 2016
[2]Agenda
[2] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160324
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-irc
Attendees
Present
benws, phila, msteidl, james, jo, caroline, renato,
serena_villata, magyarblip, simonstey, paulj, carolineb,
sabrina, kirrane, smyles, Ivan
Regrets
Chair
Ben
Scribe
jo
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]AOB
2. [6]Regular Meeting time
* [7]Summary of Action Items
* [8]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<simonstey> what's our webex meeting id?
<simonstey> m383ae385ad7b77d69e2820e1cf does not work ;)
<phila> URL for WebEx is
[9]https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m3166d150f5844b3298350c
b0b92680b9
[9]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m3166d150f5844b3298350cb0b92680b9
<phila> See topic line for password
<simonstey> for me it says Enter the meeting number to join.
NEW! Invited to a Personal Room? Enter the host's room ID.
<simonstey> it worked last week though
<phila> 640 402 848 simonstey
<phila> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
[10]https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
[10] https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
<scribe> scribe: jo
phila: scribing is important as it is the record of our
meeting, if you want to say something that is not for the the
minutes then
<phila> Write /me to write a line not in minutes
phila: /me does not appear in the minutes (whereas if you do
not what you type does appear in the minutes)
... please type present+ with your name to indicate your
presence
<phila> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
[11]https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
[11] https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
<phila> +1
<james> +1
phila: indicate your support for a proposal by adding +1 in IRC
<msteidl> +1
<serena_villata> +1
<paulj> +1
<carolineb> +1
<sabrina> +1
<magyarblip> +1
<benws> +1
<simonstey> +1
<renato> +1
phila: demonstrate regenerating the minutes
... and you will see that the resultion has been taken
RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes
[12]https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
[12] https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
phila: obviously that was not a very important resolution, it
becomes more important that we have an audit trail of what the
group has decided
benws: main purpose of the meeting is to make a call for use
cases
... we are looking to automate rights management, the more use
cases the better the standard
... three reasons for use cases
... 1. to test ODRL (gap analysis)
... 2. for exemplification in the standard
... 3. worked examples of more business realistic use cases
... how does the stanrds fit with my business problem
... so how can we manage the use cases
... 1. maintain on wiki
... 2. we need to publish a note on those use cases
... 3. we can put them in the requirements
... . 4. possibly put them in a primer so people can
understand, not within charter but worth discussing
... so, how do we want to do this?
phila: want to ask … there is a set of use cases for ODRL,
where are they?
<msteidl> [13]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/xml/2.1/
[13] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/xml/2.1/
<msteidl> [14]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/json/2.1/
[14] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/json/2.1/
msteidl: in the encoding sections
<simonstey>
[15]https://www.w3.org/2012/09/odrl/archive/odrl.net/Profiles/R
DFa/UseCase/index.html don't know how up to date those are
[15]
https://www.w3.org/2012/09/odrl/archive/odrl.net/Profiles/RDFa/UseCase/index.html
<phila> [16]DWBP UCR
[16] https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/
phila: here are a couple of examples
... want to talk process
<phila> [17]CSV on the web UCR
[17] https://www.w3.org/TR/csvw-ucr/
phila: the usual way this is done is for people to write use
cases on the wiki then a copuple of
... people offer to write a document, that is the usual way
... however …
... because of the implrementation experience, we don’t
necessarily have to do that
... it doesn’t say that we will write a primeer
... if you choose, we don’t want to write a use case document,
we want to write a primer with use cases in it
... you can choose to do that
<renato> [18]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/model/2.1/
[18] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/model/2.1/
renato: 11 original use cases are in ???
... they are in the encoding spec, the normative use cases in
the model spec in UML
benws: though they are useful for explaining how the standard
can be applied they don’t match any of the business use cases
renato: yes they illustrate scenarios, how encodings can be
expressed
... we didn’t have any business feeding use cases at the time
benws: so we want busienss driven use caes
... people to contribute, then we can do the gap analysis
... and decide whether we want to publish a note
... if there are signficant requirements, otherwsie maybe a
primer
james: I’d like to see both business and technical use cases
fleshed out
<phila> [19]An example of UCs collected in a wiki
[19] https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases
benws: shall we do this in the wiki
phila: example from another group, useful to have a template,
we will need a different template
... narrative, statement problems, things to address … for
example
... need someone to drive it
... an owner
... for clarification etc.
... usually the editor, or two editors
... that is a long way of asking for volunteers
benws: james would you like to offer a template for your use
cases
... then we can ask for editors
james: yes, from a technical side
msteidl: I can help too
benws: michael can you be use case editor?
msteidl: “I do”
benws: james please can you contribute templates by next
meeting
... more volunteers pls?
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: MSteidl to take on initial editorship of
use cases
<phila> +1
<carolineb> +1
<serena_villata> +1
<magyarblip> +1
<james> +1
<benws> +1
<simonstey> +1
<paulj> +1
<sabrina> +1
RESOLUTION: MSteidl to take on initial editorship of use cases
<renato> Social Web WG template
<renato> [20]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/Use_Case_TF
[20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/Use_Case_TF
phila: to clarify, Michael you are going to create the page on
wiki
<msteidl> yes, I will create a Use Case landing page
<phila> The wiki is the WG home -
[21]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe, magyarblip
[21] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe,
<benws> +q
<magyarblip> duh, sorry was looking on the wiki for the wiki
(too early)
benws: any further questions around use cases?
phila: I am intrigued (and interested) the original use cases
are not yours, Ben, plus renato says they are not business use
cases
... what did you have in mind
benws: we have quite complicated needs, e.g. time restrictions
... plus a big use use case is comparing supplier policies
against product policies
... that kind of automation we are looking for
renato: a bit of history
... when we were developing oRDL, there were a lot a use cases
that are not documented in specs
... eg. proposal to MPEG21 involved use cases for them
... so lots of use cases but not all of them documented in the
spec
... another question, we can use the ODRL community gp to ask
for use cases
... asuuming that CG does not have write access to wiki
... so they would need to email them to someone
benws: they could write to an equivalent use case page there
<phila> [22]The ODRL CG wiki
[22] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/Main_Page
reanto: keep them in one spot? have a template that wortks we
can solicit submissions
<renato>
[23]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/Publishing_Embedded_
and_Royalty_Free_(RF)_Assets
[23]
https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/Publishing_Embedded_and_Royalty_Free_(RF)_Assets
<scribe> ACTION: Renato to ask the community group to
contribute use cases [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action01]
[24] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this
channel.
(discussion about use of Github vs Tracker)
<magyarblip> +1 github
+1 tracker
<simonstey> +1 tracker
<carolineb> +1 github
<benws> +1 github
phila: (we will know which way we are going “shortly”)
<serena_villata> +1 tracker
(more discussion about githib vs tracker)
renato: posted a URL up above of a use case that the CG was
working on
... narrative about requirement and how it could be supported
... plus gaps highlighted
... need to highlight where gaps could be in current IDRL
functionality
magyarblip: ref business use cases, my issues are not about
ODRL the language, but I
... would like to see that the use cases consider not just in
an access control system, but how they move around and how they
... connect up, resources and agents rather than policy. I will
try to express this as part of my use cases. Can share what I
have
... written in WIley in th past, they will guide.
benws: yes, please share
... and put on wiki for now
<simonstey>
[25]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/ODRL_Linked_Data_Pro
file
[25] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/ODRL_Linked_Data_Profile
simonstey: do we care about distinguishing user stories
“lightweight” version of use case
... e.g. linked data profile for ODRL, and hence user stories
around that
... so my question is do we care about stories or do we want to
go directly to use cases
benws: what we really want is use cases, but perhaps at the
early stage user stories will help us map the territory
james: going back to github, we are open sourcing apis with
ODRL underneath, and our stuff will be on github
... but we would like to refer back to ODRL, so we could link
back on GitHub
... would be useful to have in GitHub space
<phila> [26]The WG's Github Repo
[26] https://github.com/w3c/poe
benws: agree ref developers but also githib is scary to
business ppl
<carolineb> jo: too early to take a view re use cases user
stories need to collect material
<carolineb> jop: Up to Michael and editor can then take a view
msteidl: agree collect first then we can select
<msteidl> Use Case page created at
[27]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases - in fact empty
at the moment, more will follow
[27] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases
msteidl: there we have use case page!
AOB
benws: how do we stop this!
phila: er, there are some technicalities
... which either I or Ivan will usually do
<renato> +1 tracker
phila: noting that we are evenly split on Gitbub vs Tracker
... tracker has several advantages which include integration
with IRC
<renato> ODRL CG uses Tracker
<renato> [28]https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/track/
[28] https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/track/
phila: . I just one one only
benws: can we fix now?
phila: let’s try to fix it now
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will us tracker for actions
ivan: eventually we will us github anyway
... using github issues therefore becomes mroe natural
... and all links with pull requests and so on (yada yada)
... my fear is that we will have to use github in any case
... we could use trackbot for actions
... you can’t use github for that
... CSVW WG we had duplcites and it was confusing
... so we should use one
benws: can the distinction be made between issues and actions
ivan: yes, we can use trackbot for actions
... very often threads end up being assigned to someone
... so eventually the boundaries become blurred
renato: CG has used trackbot
... perhaps we can start using trackbot
simonstey: two aspects: genenral (no specufic location in doc)
and specific relating to a place in the doc
... can we split between those
ivan: don’t think this distinction is strong enough
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will use tracker for actions
<magyarblip> fwiw i don't yet understand the ramifications
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will use Tracker for Issues and
Actions pending substantive documents on Github, when it will
revisit the question
+1
<ivan> 0
<renato> +1
<paulj> +1
<smyles> 0
<msteidl> +1
<simonstey> +1
<magyarblip> 0
<sabrina> 0
<serena_villata> 0
<james> 0
<carolineb> 0
<phila> phila: Our definition of consensus: General agreement
with no strong objections
RESOLUTION: The group will use Tracker for Issues and Actions
pending substantive documents on Github, when it will revisit
the question
(phila talks about “the nature of consensus”)
<scribe> ACTION: phila to set up trackbot [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action02]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this
channel.
benws: meeting closed
Regular Meeting time
phila: next meeting at the new regular time (mea culpa re this
being a nuisance)
<phila>
[30]http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20
160404T12&p1=0&p2=47&p3=43&p4=195&p5=236
[30]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20160404T12&p1=0&p2=47&p3=43&p4=195&p5=236
phila: monday 4th April noon gmt
benws: adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: phila to set up trackbot [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Renato to ask the community group to contribute
use cases [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action01]
[31] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action02
[32] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/24-poe-minutes.html#action01
Summary of Resolutions
1. [33]Accept last week's minutes
https://www.w3.org/2016/03/17-poe-minutes
2. [34]MSteidl to take on initial editorship of use cases
3. [35]The group will use Tracker for Issues and Actions
pending substantive documents on Github, when it will
revisit the question
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 24 March 2016 13:09:25 UTC