Re: Event Invitation: PNG marketing meeting

> The reason I said "traditionally" above is Intel's new chips have
hardware zlib decompression.

AMD also has supported hardware Deflate for many years, which is exposed on
at least one major game console. I don't know when (if ever) it'll be
exposed on common OS's, but hopefully one day.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:46 PM Chris Blume (ProgramMax) <
programmax@gmail.com> wrote:

>   RE: hardware acceleration & PNG
>
> You are right that traditionally, a pre-computed texture in a game might
> use a block compression that the GPU can handle directly. Streaming
> compressions (like zlib, which PNG uses) aren't traditionally used in the
> hardware itself. These block compressions have major limitations, though.
> They are lossy in ways that are sometimes unacceptable. Which is where PNG
> (and also TGA) fill the void.
>
> Rich and Stephanie at Binomial created a transcoder that goes from a
> streaming compression to a block compression that the GPU uses. So the line
> between hardware acceleration and PNG is already becoming blurred.
>
>
> The reason I said "traditionally" above is Intel's new chips have hardware
> zlib decompression.
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-quick-assist-technology-overview.html
> So the line is becoming even more blurred than it already was.
>
>
>
> RE: Windows compositing HDR using half floats
>
> When PNG was first created, floats were slow and rarely ever useful for
> images. Ints were used throughout the pipeline. During that time, it was
> natural for PNG to use ints for storage. As (half) floats become more
> common, the conversion from int to float might become a needless step. This
> really hinges on if an int texture rendering to a (half) float target
> introduces inefficiencies. I don't know the answer to that. (Oh, and also
> if the floats compress roughly as well.)
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:34 PM Richard Geldreich <rich@binomial.info>
> wrote:
>
>> >But is PNG really the right choice of format for real-time stuff?
>>
>> BTW - from my perspective, which is browser/video games/real-time
>> rendering oriented, I could also ask "is PNG really the right choice for
>> broadcast stuff"?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 2:45 PM Richard Geldreich <rich@binomial.info>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> .PNG is already incredibly popular in video games, real-time rendering,
>>> visualization, etc. They already use half-floats at various stages in their
>>> pipelines.
>>>
>>> Note the Windows compositer internally now uses IEEE half-floats:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3darticles/high-dynamic-range
>>>
>>> FP16: "When Advanced Color is enabled, the DWM performs its composition
>>> using IEEE half-precision floating point (FP16), eliminating any
>>> bottlenecks, and allowing the full precision of the display to be used."
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 2:12 PM Leo Barnes <lbarnes@apple.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 18:56, Richard Geldreich <rich@binomial.info>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A note about marketing "HDR" PNG: What PNG is calling "HDR" does not
>>>> have nearly enough dynamic range to be called "HDR" in some segments of the
>>>> industry, such as in real-time rendering. Even 12-bits with a transfer
>>>> function is nowhere near enough for our needs. Importantly, we need at
>>>> least 5-bit exponents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But is PNG really the right choice of format for real-time stuff?
>>>> Real-time stuff tends to require HW acceleration and PNG is not exactly
>>>> easy to accelerate with HW.
>>>>
>>>> I don't disagree with the use-case, but I don't necessarily think all
>>>> formats have to support all use-cases.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> //Leo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:23 PM Chris Blume (W3C Calendar) <
>>>> noreply+calendar@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> View this event in your browser
>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/77dd00ce-0351-4282-bab9-bdef33c6d076/>
>>>>> PNG marketing meeting Upcoming Confirmed
>>>>>
>>>>> 27 November 2023, 10:00 -11:00 EST5EDT
>>>>>
>>>>> Event is recurring every other week on Monday, starting from
>>>>> 2023-11-27, until 2024-11-13
>>>>> Portable Network Graphics (PNG) Working Group
>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/png/calendar/>
>>>>>
>>>>> The primary meeting link ishttps://
>>>>> w3c.zoom.us/j/85136933003?pwd=SW9ZaFV0UEpydkU2RXNMYnEraE85QT09
>>>>>   Joining Instructions
>>>>>
>>>>> Instructions are restricted to meeting participants. You need to log
>>>>> in
>>>>> <https://auth.w3.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fevents%2Fmeetings%2F77dd00ce-0351-4282-bab9-bdef33c6d076%2F>
>>>>> to see them.
>>>>>   Participants Organizers
>>>>>
>>>>>    - Chris Blume
>>>>>    - Stephanie Hurlburt
>>>>>
>>>>> Groups
>>>>>
>>>>>    - Portable Network Graphics (PNG) Working Group
>>>>>    <https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/png/> (View Calendar
>>>>>    <https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/png/calendar/>)
>>>>>
>>>>> Report feedback and issues on GitHub <https://github.com/w3c/calendar>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>