Joint PMWG-APAWG meeting today - summary

Hello APA, Pronunciation, Adapt, and PMWG!

Thanks again to PMWG for hosting us for our first TPAC call [1]! We covered
three main areas. Here is a summary from my perspective, but I'm sure I'm
missing something, so you can also refer to the excellent minutes [2].

Thanks to all the APA folks who attended (and to everyone who contributed to
our discussions on these topics during and prior). Feel free to add anything
I missed to this summary.

tl;dr: Lots of interesting work being explored by both groups, and there's
more to work on together.


// Extended descriptions (the main focus of the call)

* We explored a couple of alternative branches here...

* Keeping with the technical problem: exploring the use of `rel` attribute
values; possibly with a matching token that could be used as a `role`. The
idea that finding a solution that works with both inter- and intra-document
links may be desirable. Also the idea that if e.g. a `<details>` element was
marked up as being an extended description, the eReader could display it as
a pop-up, so it would not break pagination.

* Thinking about whether the web needs a 'take me back to where I was
(including cursor, virtual cursor, etc. position)' feature.

* Importance of involving ARIA in the process (they are).

* Next steps were that the group would look at turning the (very clear)
document they have into an Explainer. APA is happy to review, and I expect
TAG would be too - this is something that could apply to the whole web.

* Risks involve the comparisons to `longdesc` - the group wants to to
something a bit different, which is to identify content that already exists
as the extended description. (Personal note: I think we'd still need to go
to some effort to make sure that the content is expected to be visible and
discoverable for all users.)


// Pronunciation (only a short time on the call)

* It was felt to be an opportune time to be working on these problems.

* The current state of specs is not great.

* It was suggested that we try working on Web Speech API first.

* Bilingual texts can cause jarring shifts in voice used - this is big UX
issue.

* SSML (likely not our intended new approach) has barriers from the
publishing/deployment angle too.


// Symbols (only a few mins - so far)

* <ruby> _should_ work in eReaders (but need to check, maybe better
supported in some areas than others).

* There isn't a formal spec to indicate when a (current) ruby is for
pronunciation, or reading (content).

* We were asked: is there a symbol for 'extended description'?


// Summary

We had a great meeting, covered a lot of ground, and realised there's more
for us to talk about together, so we will be keeping tabs on PMWG's work,
and sharing ours with them when we can, and most likely talking again not
too long after TPAC.

best regards,


Matthew

[1]
<https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d4de58aa-59e8-4071-83d9-d7ff2c795858/202
51030T090000/>
[2] <https://w3c.github.io/pm-wg/minutes/2025-10-30.html>

Matthew Atkinson
Head of Web Standards
Samsung R&D Institute UK
Samsung Electronics
+44 7733 238 020

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Received on Thursday, 30 October 2025 16:05:54 UTC