ARIA Minutes for 15 October

Minutes from the ARIA teleconference of 15 October are provided below as text,
and are available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-aria-minutes.html


   W3C

                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                              Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

15 Oct 2015

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, fesch, Joseph_Scheuhammer, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa, MichaelC, Léonie_Watson, Stefan_Schnabel, Matt_King,
          Michiel_Bijl

   Regrets
   Chair
          Rich

   Scribe
          Janina

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Action-1361
         2. Issue-742
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2015

   <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

   <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0063.html

   OK. Sorry

   <LJWatson> prsent+ LJWatson

   <scribe> scribe: Janina

   <clown> action-1361

   <trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

Action-1361

   action-1361?

   <trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

   jd: Don't believe there's progress

   <clown> issue-640

   <trackbot> issue-640 -- Investigate aria-hasmanagedfocus to indicate whether a region manages focus to enable complex widgets -- closed

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/640

   rs: We need to get these done, else they move to 2.0.
   ... Any objections to deadline of next week on this?

   mc: Suggest communicate the deadline clearly

   <clown> +1

   jd: Ah, see new Github branch for this

   <clown> +1 to Michael's plan-to-rec suggestion

   rs: OK. Agenda for next week

   <clown> action-1714

   <trackbot> action-1714 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft Figure Role -- due 2015-09-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1714

   <joanie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0094.html

   rs: Well, it's another author should ...

   <joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1714/aria/aria.html#figure

   rs: There are cases where it might not be advisable

   fe: Not sure it's always a best practice

   js: We're saying there's a description somewhere, may be implicit or explicit

   <clown> You can compose a graphical document with any combination of symbols, images, text, and graphic primitives (shapes such as circles, points, lines, paths,
   rectangles, etc).

   <clown> A graphical document is composed using any combination of ...

   RESOLUTION: Figure role is finished

   rs: Are people OK with glossary definition?

   RESOLUTION: Definition of graphical document has been completed

   <clown> issue-264

   <trackbot> issue-264 -- Clarify tab and tabpanel -- closed

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/264

   <clown> issue-624

   <trackbot> issue-624 -- Primary Action Concept -- raised

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/624

   <clown> action-1736

   <trackbot> action-1736 -- James Nurthen to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-10-19 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1736

Issue-742

   <clown> issue-742

   <trackbot> issue-742 -- Introduce the ability to provide the destination context of a link -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/742

   rs: I learned there's a wiki collection of rel values

   <richardschwerdtfeger> http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#HTML5_link_type_extensions

   rs: Met with Dpub, and believe all issues are on the table
   ... Dpub doesn't want to be making the decision
   ... There's a lot in the rel wiki
   ... Much of it makes no sense from an ARIA or COGA perspective
   ... COGA's interest is in styling the UI
   ... Currently, rel is not mapped on link by AT
   ... It's possible Xlink would apply for SVG
   ... Noting that there will be no DOM access via Edge

   lw: How would screen readers use COGA info?
   ... Curious how this works from a user experience

   rs: At the moment, there's a lot we don't know

   mk: Is there an assumption that SR would expose?
   ... Some kind of setting "i want this additional info"

   rs: Much of it may not be of value
   ... COGA wants it styled for comprehension
   ... Some of the values may, but others may not have value to AT
   ... The Dpub values are much more clearly valuable

   janina: Concerned that exposing el means exposing any of the rel registered taxonomies.

   rs: Also concerned that the supported taxonomies would continue growing

   js: So we only expose a subset of possible rel values?

   rs: Yes, a subset. Challenge is which ones

   lw: Using a prefix notation a la dublin core?
   ... So, aria.XXX or coga.XXX etc

   <richardschwerdtfeger> got disconnected

   <mck> hmm

   <mck> snow day in California?

   <mck> matt is back

   rs: We don't have rel attrib for link role
   ... So, it wouldn't work on a div

   <clown> <div role="link" rel="???"> can't be done.

   mk: questions that

   js: Not conformant
   ... Likely browser will leave it in the DOM
   ... Believe browser would add rel value to the dom

   mk: ARIA would have to define for it to be valid?

   js: Or get mod from HTML

   jd: Or require it limited to anchor

   <richardschwerdtfeger> no. <link rel=“”>

   fe: Saw examples of link in body ...
   ... Ah, for linking to alternative formats, other lang versions, etc

   js: Doubt "link" used in body would actually be rendered

   <joanie> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/document-metadata.html#the-link-element

   <clown> <link rel="author license" href="/about">

   rs: We won't resolve this today ...
   ... Only reason to suggest ARIA-Destination at this time is for specialized Dpub roles
   ... To describe/identify the destination by type
   ... Example is identifying link goes to a glossary definition

   mk: Can a sighted user distinguish these somehow? Are they styled differently?

   rs: Yes

   mk: Wondering aloud whether we already have something like this
   ... Help for the control

   rs: Styling is supported so long as an attribute selector is available
   ... We can't hold up ARIA-1.1 for Destinationq+

   <Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask whose governance is rel/micorformats under? And which of our specs documents our @rel values?

   js: Who controls the supported vocabulary?

   <richardschwerdtfeger> http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#HTML5_link_type_extensions

   js: So we convince them of the values we want?

   rs: No, we just tell them

   js: I'm leary of needing to add our values to this wiki

   mk: Concerned that Destination is attrib bloat

   rs: Would like to resolve this soon

   mc: Hearing much concern of how rel is extended in this conversation and note this is an old, much debated concern
   ... We may want to re-raise this with Web Platforms

   rs: Noting we could develop this via Dpub module and add to ARIA core later, if this turns out to be preferred

   topic Action-1361

   actin-1361?

   <clown> action-1361

   <trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

   action-1361?

   <trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

   <mck> 1. Remove use of the word "application" from the definition of application.

   <mck> 2. Specify it is a section or structure.

   <mck> 3. Make clear that it is unnecessary for standard widgets to help avoid overuse.

   <mck> 4. Editorial improvements, e.g., remove redundant wording from the description.

   mk: #3 most important to me

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#application

   mk: "Application" is much overused, even by AT

   <joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/7593ebf36?diff=split

   mk: Shouldn't need application role where everything in the region is a standard widget

   <mck> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_applicationRole/aria/aria.html#landmark

   <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_applicationRole/aria/aria.html#application

   <fesch> Yes you need an application role when you make your own widget like a interactive chart widget and need the key events passed to you

   [group discussing proposed revisions]

   <joanie> fesch: maybe widget should then not be abstract

   <fesch> joanie: well right now you have to use application... if widget worked...

   <fesch> right now, you have to use application in order to get get events

   <fesch> even if you an application the browser won't give you every event like tab...

   mk: Why application should be child of landmark? Suggest should be sibling of document

   js: Believe what we have came from looking at portals and portlets

   mk: So why document not landmark

   rs: Because we use it top switch out of this application stuff

   mk: But that goes both ways--suggest there's confusion here
   ... suggest putting "document" on body is redundant
   ... suggest 99% of application usage is useless, region would work as well

   rs: Don't quite see the corelation
   ... Taking a straw poll ...

   lw: Agrees with MK

   jn: Would prefer a better way to do what we need to do
   ... Don't mind removing it from landmarks

   rs: No objections to removing application from landmark?

   mk: Will finish edits and see how it goes
   ... Are labels required

   rs: Not for role=document
   ... Any objections?

   [crickets]

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found Scribe: Janina
Present: Janina Joanmarie_Diggs fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer James_Nurthen Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa MichaelC Léonie_Watson Stefan_Schnabel Matt_King Michiel_Bijl
Found Date: 15 Oct 2015

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf

Received on Thursday, 15 October 2015 18:07:05 UTC