RE: Proposal: remove aria-describedat from the ARIA 1.1 specification

Hi Rich,

If that wasn't clear, I apologize, but this conversation has been going on for months.  Please refer to the feedback on the options available for extended descriptions that DPUB provided [1].
[1] http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/extended-description-analysis.html

Thanks,
Tzviya

Tzviya Siegman
Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 12:13 PM
To: Deborah Kaplan
Cc: Steve Faulkner; DPUB-ARIA; WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: Proposal: remove aria-describedat from the ARIA 1.1 specification


Deborah,

That was not clear to people in the dub discussions we had at TPAC. aria-describedat does not solve that either.

So you want a description AND an extended description. ... or is it that you want to have a description that can reside at a different location than what is in the page?

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger

[Inactive hide details for Deborah Kaplan ---11/05/2015 11:04:54 AM---What the digital publishing industry was requesting in thi]Deborah Kaplan ---11/05/2015 11:04:54 AM---What the digital publishing industry was requesting in this particular case was a single mechanism f

From: Deborah Kaplan <dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com<mailto:dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com>>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com<mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>
Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, DPUB-ARIA <public-dpub-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-dpub-aria@w3.org>>, WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>
Date: 11/05/2015 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Proposal: remove aria-describedat from the ARIA 1.1 specification

________________________________



What the digital publishing industry was requesting in this particular
case was a single mechanism for extended descriptions which always means
extended description, and only means extended description.

Deborah Kaplan

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015, Steve Faulkner wrote:

> arai-flowto is another mechanism that could be used to provide a relationship between content and description
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-flowto
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
>
> On 5 November 2015 at 16:20, Deborah Kaplan <dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com<mailto:dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com>> wrote:
>       On Thu, 5 Nov 2015, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
>
>             You could link it via aria-describedby to whatever you are describing.  This way you have an explicit extended
>             description.
>
>
>       But aria-describedby is for non-extended descriptions, standard
>       descriptions that can't be associated with standard controls. Admittedly
>       the formal description of the element is ambiguous, in that it
>       explicitly clarifies that a description is more verbose than a label,
>       but currently all AT (I believe) treats aria-describedby as a
>       non-extended description which should be placed in the normal flow and
>       not reported as special. Is the proposal that aria-describedby should
>       always mean extended descriptions, and anything which is less verbose
>       than an extended description belongs in a label? If that's the case, the
>       formal definition of aria-describedby will need to be clarified, and
>       screenreader manufacturers will need to be asked to change the behavior
>       accordingly (e.g. to treat aria-describedby like longdesc, not like
>       aria-labelledby).
>
>       Deborah Kaplan
>
>             Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
>             Inactive hide details for Deborah Kaplan ---11/05/2015 10:07:45 AM---On Thu, 5 Nov 2015, Richard Schwerdtfeger
>             wrote: > but I b Deborah
>             Kaplan ---11/05/2015 10:07:45 AM---On Thu, 5 Nov 2015, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > but I believe this
>             addresses the requirements of
>
>             From: Deborah Kaplan <dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com<mailto:dkaplan@safaribooksonline.com>>
>             To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>             Cc: WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>, DPUB-ARIA <public-dpub-aria@w3.org<mailto:public-dpub-aria@w3.org>>
>             Date: 11/05/2015 10:07 AM
>             Subject: Re: Proposal: remove aria-describedat from the ARIA 1.1  specification
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>             _
>
>
>
>
>
>             On Thu, 5 Nov 2015, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
>             > but I believe this addresses the requirements of
>             > the digital publishing industry.
>
>             One of our biggest concerns was that this extended description be
>             something that could be semantically identified AS an extended
>             description. Was this addressed in discussions at TPAC? Based on the
>             email that has gone by, I have not seen anything that will distinguish
>             extended descriptions in <details> elements from anything else in a
>             <details> element.
>
>             Deborah Kaplan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>