RE: Issues with HTML5 placeholder and related Accessibility API mappings

> The placeholder like the title is used as a value when no better value is provided using the recommended methods, the spec does not imply that it an author
> should use it as a label, but does imply that user agents use it as a possible source for a label. The API mapping spec is for UA implementers, not authors.

Granted, that’s why I explained in my original message how this information was represented in the accessibility tree is wrong, which I proved by breaking it when all three attributes are used correctly. (title + placeholder + aria-describedby)

Along with the label element, the title attribute has always been the secondary method for providing the explicit name for a form field:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H65.html


Now, the naming calculation says that placeholder should be used as the accessible name before the title attribute when present, meaning that the placeholder is used as the label for that field and not the title.

This is reflected in the accessibility tree, view Object Inspector in Firefox.

If anything, placeholder should be placed after title in that list, not before.

>> As such, it seems logical to me to treat placeholder as a temporary field value in the accessibility tree when there is no actual value present on the
>> edit control, because it's acting as a place holder value, which would have no impact if the form was submitted because it still wouldn't exist in the
>> DOM as the value of that field.

> Disagree, as is regularly the case where the ONLY source of an accessible name for a control is placeholder text, an unfortunate reality.

I’m not talking about the only accessible source, but the case when a field is properly marked up, such as the following:
<input title="Birth date" placeholder="mm/dd/yyyy" aria-describedby="t1id" /> <div id="t1id"> Make sure you only enter a future date </div>

According to the naming calculation, placeholder is used as the label for this field, not the title. (View in Firefox and Chrome to confirm this in the accessibility tree) Additionally, the title cannot be found anywhere because it already has a description.

>> which would have no impact if the form was submitted because it still wouldn't exist in the DOM as the value of that field.
> placeholder never exists in the DOM as the value of the field as far as I know it is always present as the value of the placeholder attribute i the DOM
> (if present).

I know, I’m referring to the accessibility tree mappings for placeholder, not the DOM.

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 4:25 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: PF
Subject: Re: Issues with HTML5 placeholder and related Accessibility API mappings


On 19 March 2015 at 19:16, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
The issue being that many see placeholder as a label substitute, which is an incorrect assumption, even though the spec seems to imply that this is true.

The placeholder like the title is used as a value when no better value is provided using the recommended methods, the spec does not imply that it an author should use it as a label, but does imply that user agents use it as a possible source for a label. The API mapping spec is for UA implementers, not authors.



Technically the concept of placeholder is to provide hint text in the place where the value is to be entered, as a temporary 'place holder' for the value of that field, not as a label for that field.

agreed

When placeholder is used as a label however, it is temporary and disappears when a user interacts with the field, rendering this as useless as a visual label, which presents cognitive accessibility issues for some users, and presents additional issues for non-sighted AT users.

agreed,  and thus the advice present in the HTML5 spec

As such, it seems logical to me to treat placeholder as a temporary field value in the accessibility tree when there is no actual value present on the edit control, because it's acting as a place holder value, which would have no impact if the form was submitted because it still wouldn't exist in the DOM as the value of that field.

Disagree, as is regularly the case where the ONLY source of an accessible name for a control is placeholder text, an unfortunate reality.
which would have no impact if the form was submitted because it still wouldn't exist in the DOM as the value of that field.

placeholder never exists in the DOM as the value of the field as far as I know it is always present as the value of the placeholder attribute i the DOM (if present).

I have grepped some placeholder usage example data from a random selection of 10,000 html files,  note its a big HTML file (3.8 mb)  and the output is crappy HTML.
http://www.html5accessibility.com/HTML5data/placeholder-usage.html




--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>