RE: Action-1293 Proposal

Making code understandable is important.

Plus, it is almost imposible to understand the shorter versions with a 
screen reader. So, I think the 2 extra chars are super worth it! I vote 
for rowcount, colcount, rowindex, colindex in part because I wouldn't have 
to keep updating screen reader pronunciation dictionaries.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:   "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>
To:     Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, James Craig 
<jcraig@apple.com>, 
Cc:     Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Richard 
Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, Joanmarie 
Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:   03/17/2015 06:38 AM
Subject:        RE: Action-1293 Proposal



+1
 
From: Alexander Surkov [mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 8:22 AM
To: James Craig
Cc: Dominic Mazzoni; Richard Schwerdtfeger; Matthew King; Joanmarie Diggs; 
PF
Subject: Re: Action-1293 Proposal
 
My thumb up
 
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:25 AM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
Let's keep it long enough to be clear to authors. "row—" and "col—" are 
clear enough. "r—" and "c—" could be anything.
 
On Mar 16, 2015, at 11:16 PM, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com> wrote:
 
I think it should be rowcount, colcount, rowindex, and colindex.
 
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
Rich, why not have rowcount and colcount, it's not much longer? But if 
rcount and ccount then why not rindex and cindex?
 
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> 
wrote:
Perhaps. I was trying to be consistent but perhaps the names are too
close. I will change the name from rsize to rcount and csize to ccount.




Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS
To:     Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
Cc:     Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>,
Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Date:   03/10/2015 12:30 PM
Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal



> Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.

Could these be confusing names? aria-setsize tells the number of items in
the set. Might people think that aria-rowsize is the number of items
(cells or columns) in a row? And that aria-colsize is the number of items
(cells or rows) in a column? Of course, they can read the fine spec... but
they may just be reading code.

I wonder if aria-rowcount and aria-colcount might be more descriptive?

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:        Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
To:        Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc:        PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Date:        03/10/2015 08:16 AM
Subject:        Re: Action-1293 Proposal


Hi, again. I think I have an addition to attributes definition, you gave,
which would make me ok with attributes. Let me share it with you.

aria-rowindex

If aria-rowindex attribute value on the item is lesser than previous item
row index then the attribute is ignored. If aria-rowsize attribute value
is lesser then subsequent items number then the attribute is ignored.

aria-colindex

Same text as aria-rowindex plus "aria-colindex is ignored on any cell not
belonging to the first presented row".

Also, I would like more if aria-rsize and aria-csize were renamed to
aria-rowsize and aria-colsize as more descriptive names.

Thanks.
Alex.


On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi. I still dislike the definition of aria-colindex

"Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the
current set of columns table"

since it allows to move table cells in the table. You can easily do
sorting:

<table role="grid">
  <row>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">A</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">B</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">C</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">D</td>
  </row>
...
</table>

This statement is incorrect in case of IA2 and ATK

"This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent."

because every cell has to have column and row index in these APIs, so if
it's not provided by ARIA then the browser has to calculate it.

Same concerns are applicable to aria-rowindex property.

Thanks.
Alex.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
for role="row" add aria-rowindex and aria-rsize
for role="cell" and gridcell add aria-colindex, and aria-csize

aria-colindex (property)
Defines an element's cell or gridcell column number or position in the
current set of columns table, grid, or treegrid. See related aria-csize.
This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
default value is -1 which means indeterminant.
The following example shows columns 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
<table role="grid">
  <row>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
  </row>
...
</table>

aria-rowindex (property)

Defines a element's row number or position in the current set of rows
table, grid, or treegrid. It is not required if all row elements in the
set are present in the DOM. See related aria-rsize

If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
necessary to set this attribute, as the user agent can automatically
calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a
portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment,
this property is needed to provide an explicit indication of an element's
position.

When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
gridcells in addition to the row it is applied to.
The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
<table>
  <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
</table>

aria-csize (property)

Defines the number of columns in the current table or grid's set of
columns.
This property is marked on the members of a set, not the container element
that collects the members of the set. To orient the user by saying an
element is "item X out of Y," the assistive technologies would use X equal
to the aria-colindex attribute and aria-csize equal to the aria-colsize
attribute.
This property is not automatically caldulated by the user agent. The
default value is -1 which means indeterminate.
The following example shows items 5 through 8 in a set of 16.
<table role="grid">
  <row>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="5" aria-csize="16">A</td>
     <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="6" aria-csize="16">B</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="7" aria-csize="16">C</td>
    <td role="gridcell" aria-colindex="8" aria-csize="16">D</td>
  </row>
...
</table>

aria-rsize (property)

Defines the number of rows in the current set of rows within a table,
grid, or treegrid. Not required if all elements in the set are present in
the DOM. See related aria-posinset.
This property is marked on rows, or cells or gridcells contained within
the containing row. To orient the user by saying an element is "item X out
of Y," the assistive technologies would use X equal to the aria-rowindex
attribute and Y equal to the aria-rsize attribute.
If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not
necessary to set this property, as the user agent can automatically
calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a
portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment
(in order to reduce document size), this property is needed to provide an
explicit indication of set size.

When applied to an element having a role of "row" the user agent must
expose the proprety to assistive technologies on all descendant cells and
gridcells unless overridden by  applying the property directly to a
descendant cell or gridcell.
The following example shows rows 3 through 5 in a set of 5.
<table>
  <row aria-rowindex="3" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="4" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
  <row aria-rowindex="5" aria-rsize="5">
     <td>A</td>
     <td>B</td>
     <td>C</td>
  </row>
</table>

Note: need to coordinate with Steve Faulkner new native host language
semantics for TD and Table elements.


Rich Schwerdtfeger