RE: ARIA 1.1: Deprecate @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect

I agree that the way that drag and drop is worded is problematic, but I would like to ask about the value of providing textual equivalent feedback using these attributes.

I have never seen the value of using the ARIA drag and drop attributes as indicated in the spec for implementing behavior, because that is confusingly worded.

However, when there is drag and drop functionality attached to a particular widget or element, these attributes are useful for conveying that this functionality exists for non-sighted screen reader users. This is more in the sense of a textual equivalent.

E.G Within GWT, there is a tree component. You can do many things with this, and one of the options is to drag and drop tree leaf nodes from one place to another.

If these attributes were no longer supported, how would a non-sighted user know when an item was 'grabbed', and where within the tree a focusable element was enabled for being 'droppable'?

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 11:03 AM
To: lwatson@paciellogroup.com
Cc: 'James Craig'; 'WAI Protocols & Formats'
Subject: RE: ARIA 1.1: Deprecate @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect


Just to be clear HTML5 tried to get common drag and drop done and it bombed. Perhaps the new web applications group can do a better job.


Rich Schwerdtfeger

[Inactive hide details for Léonie Watson ---06/19/2015 06:46:57 AM---> From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com] > Sent: 19 Ju]Léonie Watson ---06/19/2015 06:46:57 AM---> From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com] > Sent: 19 June 2015 10:43

From: Léonie Watson <lwatson@paciellogroup.com<mailto:lwatson@paciellogroup.com>>
To: "'James Craig'" <jcraig@apple.com<mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>, "'WAI Protocols & Formats'" <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>
Date: 06/19/2015 06:46 AM
Subject: RE: ARIA 1.1: Deprecate @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect

________________________________



> From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com]
> Sent: 19 June 2015 10:43
> In an effort to reduce the author complexity of ARIA, I'd like to propose
the
> spec's first deprecations: @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect.

+1

[...]

> Accessible drag & drop is a feature that may be better left to native
> implementations. It could potentially be solved by some future version of
> ARIA, but I do not believe @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect do the job.
> It's a bad API that should be culled from the 1.1 spec.


Do you think it would be worth proposing an HTML5 extension for this?
>
> In case there is any objection: I could be convinced to drop the call for
> deprecation if anyone can point to a single real-world web application
(not a
> test case) that works well in any browser+screenreader combo. The example
> should use @aria-grabbed and @aria-dropeffect accurately in conjunction
> with native or scripted drag and drop behavior.


Even in test cases using ARIA to spec, I haven't yet found an example that
works reliably across all (or even most) browser/AT combinations.


Léonie.

--
Léonie Watson - Senior accessibility engineer
@LeonieWatson @PacielloGroup PacielloGroup.com