RE: Discussion of adding table role vs using grid with aria-interactive=false in June 3, 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

I vote for "table" and "cell" roles, for the following reasons:

1.      Much easier to explain to developers, the dynamic role calculation (even if limited) is a big change to ARIA

2.      In the future when developers can define their own custom roles, these will be the first two many developers will create, why not standardize them now

Jon


From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 3:26 AM
To: PF
Subject: Discussion of adding table role vs using grid with aria-interactive=false in June 3, 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

Today, the discussion of how to use ARIA to represent static tables continues.

There are 2 radically different proposals on the table:

1. Use a property on grid to mark the grid as static or non-interactive. Proposed text for this approach is in the matt-action1505 branch of the 1.1 spec [1]. This essentially makes the grid role dual purpose. It can represent a structural table or an interactive grid.

2. Add table and cell roles for static tables.

In previous meetings, consensus leaned in the direction of option 1-- using a property. Since then, on this list, there has been some concern expressed with that approach.

Now is a good time to weigh in with your support or concerns.

I originally considered option 1 acceptable. However, after more thought, I see a potentially significant problem. The states and properties that should be supported on an interactive widget are different from those supported on a structural widget. Without separate roles for table and grid, there will not be any clear way within the specification to spell out those differences. This would make the grid specification extremely complex. The grid definition in the spec would have to have a list of supported states and properties for when it is interactive and a separate list for when it is not. We do not have any precedence for this.

We do have precedence for properties that affect mapping, e.g., aria-pressed, and aria-haspopup on button. But, those features do not create a level of complexity similar to this proposal for tables.

Note that this discussion and option 1 above are not related to bug 27866 [2]. The name of the property in the option 1 proposal is unfortunately and only coincidentally the same as that used in bug 27866.

[1] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/matt-action1505/aria/aria.html#aria-interactive<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__rawgit.com_w3c_aria_matt-2Daction1505_aria_aria.html-23aria-2Dinteractive&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=FcCln_KhWfr3mN-NPXgJ34-4T0_B8OQcqY-aTEEPvQg&e=>

[2] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27866<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_Bugs_Public_show-5Fbug.cgi-3Fid-3D27866&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=hhVn1VakwB_pLyQu0gy-J0bLKGeT2baOwvqBaBgnMuE&e=>

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com<mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com>



From:        Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org<mailto:cooper@w3.org>>
To:        PF <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>,
Date:        06/03/2015 01:15 PM
Subject:        Agenda: June 3, 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
________________________________



Agenda: June 3, 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

Time of meeting is 12:30PM EST, 9:30AM PST, 16:30 UTC, duration is 1.5 hours
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IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #aria.

Agenda:

  *   aria-selected action-1073 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1073<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_actions_1073&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=3L4rl0DeQuJ3WIoChUrUKIIVWsBXjdCc_3OK1WO0W7U&e=>[Matt]
  *   Tables continued
  *   Using bug tracking page https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA/Tests/Browser_Bug_Tracking<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_wiki_ARIA_Tests_Browser-5FBug-5FTracking&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=uaSBTRl-ok1oAKmMK10Bq0bbQS48fISa7sD97XMJx_8&e=>
  *   readonly checkboxes issue-712 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/712<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_issues_712&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=y5BbdMcQlNsIp1lIA0vrkM5umJzlTTTHuAW3OCyferY&e=>
  *   Switch role issue-713 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/713<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_issues_713&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=QZsW7SN-kCSJGLlZf2mmoUkjZxTPkIfM1DJV36Wmyks&e=>
  *   Review Open Action Items and Issues https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/17<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_products_17&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=_z1ikE6zAfmIHYYFqqs89EeU7a-NMWZLeouHOXu-Jqw&e=>

References:

ARIA Test Plan Action Items:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/5<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_products_5&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=im1AKIHTi1wByT1pfeOWyAAxd0sQKwZFJIbNzwwB8m0&e=>

UAIG Open Actions and Issues:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_Group_track_products_10&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=AsQQogXvY23jDnZR-jSBCvPeOpCGdejL9sP3qwlorBw&e=>

ARIA Test Report:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_testharness_testreport-3Ftestsuite-5Fid-3D1&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=rq4vx3n6IgA2zz2gwfVXnWXaTqkUQZ2H8jgrgCG_Id4&e=>

Use Cases for Extended Descriptions:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Use_Cases_for_Extended_Descriptions<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_PF_wiki_Use-5FCases-5Ffor-5FExtended-5FDescriptions&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=agPznP4Lir-bXI7FcFSARisWNt9tC-6cDDGR6mMexOI&e=>

Minutes Last Meeting:
http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-aria-minutes.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_2015_05_14-2Daria-2Dminutes.html&d=AwMFAw&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=REZD8fc2AwufInstfW3L5jSLVS8bjZtAodDOhat7yAI&m=8ZvszadZbsHmxde1GkBiiMtdWlYRRIKxVfEI-ZG1Ct0&s=ScAXOFnJ3RLjYITRNgPFJUsX7KYWPTjVLz6jYyhHQRQ&e=>