RE: role=toolbar should become landmark role in ARIA 1.1

I also think that some unexperienced users may confuse 'navigation' with 'toolbar' too. I agree with Marco, I don't think it should be a landmark.
Sally

Sally Cain
Accessibility Technology Manager
Accessibility Support and Solutions Team 
ICT
RNIB
Tel: 07554 333428
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Zehe [mailto:mzehe@mozilla.com] 
Sent: 01 July 2015 15:09
To: Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: Schnabel, Stefan; WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: role=toolbar should become landmark role in ARIA 1.1

I am not in favor of this. Toolbars are composit widgets that contain other widgets. Traditionally, if you look at MS Office implementations, keyboard interaction has been implemented for these, and this was later expanded to the ribbons in MS Office and Explorer etc.

On the Mac, Toolbars are also container elements that you have to interact with with Vo+Shift+DownArrow to get to the controls.

In many web applications, arrow left and right within a toolbar have been accepted as quasi-standards to navigate within the confines of one toolbar, in application mode. A hotkey like Tab or F6 or the like would move to the next toolbar container.

Labeling them is definitely not only useful, but should be mandatory, to know what a toolbar is for. Except for single toolbars, most Apple software does this nowadays, and the toolbars in MS Office (ribbons) have names, too.

So conceptually, these are much more widgets than they are landmarks, since keyboard interaction usually dictates an application-like interaction anyway.

Marco


On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> wrote:


 I am neutral on it, slightly towards it being a good idea.
 We need to make sure not to map too many things as landmarks, else
 pages become "unlandmarkable" (when pages contain 20 or 30 or 50
 landmarks their usefulness as navigation aids evaporates).
 Given that pages generally don´t contain too many toolbars this might
 be all right.
 The risk is when toolbars are used (correctly I would say) to group
 together commonly used functions that appear multiple times on a page
 )such as a social sharing toolbar that appears next to each news story
 preview for instance).
 I also see this problem with the article tag mapping to role-'article'.
 I would propose that, like the tradition with region, toolbars are
 only mapped as landmarks if they have an explicit name assigned via
 aria-label (though it is actually a requirement in the spec if page
 contains more than one toolbar).
 -Birkir
 

 On 7/1/15, Schnabel, Stefan <stefan.schnabel@sap.com> wrote:
 > All,
 >
 > I'd like to hear opinions on the subject of this post.
 >
 > We often encounter the situation that toolbars in business applications
 > running in the web are stuffed with functions (10+ buttons, combos etc.)
 >
 > For ease of access, it would be desirable to use landmark navigation
 > features built in in user agents and assistive technology to directly
 > navigate to the toolbars.
 >
 > The classy approach is to "wrap" a div with role toolbar in another div with
 > e.g. role=region labelled for instance "tools" and then to proceed
 > navigation to the inner content.
 > But this "costs" an additional parent DOM node and is therefore often
 > subject of discussion with Web UI performance groups wanting the leanest DOM
 > possible.
 >
 > Another proposal is to provide access keys to buttons inside using the
 > (buggy) access key mechanism or even to provide custom JS for keyboard
 > navigation.
 >
 > Having role=toolbar as a landmark role in ARIA 1.1 would avoid wrapping and
 > ease navigation to functions without additional effort from authoring side.
 >
 > Thoughts?
 >
 > Best Regards
 > Stefan
 >
 >
 > Dr. Stefan Schnabel
 > Senior User Experience Design Specialist
 > P&I Customer Innovation & Services
 > ASCOT - Standards Excellence
 >
 > SAP SE | Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16 | 69190 Walldorf, Germany
 > T: +49 (6227) 7-65652 <tel:%2B49%20%286227%29%207-65652>  F: +49 (6227) 78-29877 <tel:%2B49%20%286227%29%2078-29877> 
 
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