Re: ACTION-1349: Creation of aria-placeholder

Dominic,

I see what you mean about aria-placeholder vs the HTML placeholder
attribute.  But it seems like we are giving developers guidance in the
text.

Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the text
inside a blank unfocused control.

And the note is full of warnings for developers.

Note: As is the case with the related HTML placeholder attribute, use of
placeholder text as a replacement for a displayed label can reduce the
accessibility and usability of the control for a range of users
including older users and users with cognitive, mobility, fine motor
skill or vision impairments. While the hint given by the control's label
is shown at all times, the short hint given in the placeholder attribute
is only shown before the user enters a value. Furthermore, placeholder
text may be mistaken for a pre-filled value, and as commonly implemented
the default color of the placeholder text provides insufficient contrast
and the lack of a separate visible label reduces the size of the hit
region available for setting focus on the control.

It might be better if the MDN note was added to the HTML doc rather than an
aria doc, but if we can't get it in there, it would add stronger guidance.
MDN note
  Note: Do not use the placeholder attribute instead of a <label> element.
  Their purposes are different: the <label> attribute describes the role of
  the form element; that is, it indicates what kind of information is
  expected, the placeholder attribute is a hint about the format the
  content should take. There are cases in which the placeholder attribute
  is never displayed to the user, so the form must be understandable
  without it.


It seems like the HTML placeholder attribute should be picked up from
standard controls without the need for a special aria property.  Is the
aria-placeholder attribute for custom controls? Or could a developer do
something like what is shown below and we would be happy with that?

<input type="text" name="fname" placeholder="First name"
aria-placeholder="high school nickname">

I would think an input without an different placeholder and
aria-placeholder would be more consistent with general guidance and be
preferable.

<input type="text" name="fname" placeholder="First name">
                                                              
                                                              
                    Regards,                     Fred         
                                                              
                   Fred Esch                                  
       Accessibility, Watson Innovations                      
    AARB Complex Visualization Working Group                  
                     Chair                                    
            W3C SVG A11y Task Force                           
                IBM Watson Group                              
                                                              
                                                              





From:	Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
To:	Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:	"W3C WAI Protocols & Formats" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:	01/15/2015 10:40 AM
Subject:	Re: ACTION-1349: Creation of aria-placeholder



I like that note, but would it make sense for ARIA? After all,
aria-placeholder itself wouldn't make something displayed - it's just a way
to notify AT that a placeholder is there, maybe implementedvia an overlay
or something.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:
  Joanie,

  I like what you have, but I also like the note from MDN
  https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/Input  as the
  MDN note explicitly states not to use a placeholder instead of a label.

  Note: Do not use the placeholder attribute instead of a <label> element.
  Their purposes are different: the <label> attribute describes the role of
  the form element; that is, it indicates what kind of information is
  expected, the placeholder attribute is a hint about the format the
  content should take. There are cases in which the placeholder attribute
  is never displayed to the user, so the form must be understandable
  without it.





                                                      
              Regards,                    Fred        
                                                      
             Fred Esch                                
 Accessibility, Watson Innovations                    
 AARB Complex Visualization Working                   
            Group Chair                               
      W3C SVG A11y Task Force                         
          IBM Watson Group                            
                                                      




  Inactive hide details for Joanmarie Diggs ---01/15/2015 09:56:56 AM---Hi
  all. Proposed text for aria-placeholder follows. It's Joanmarie Diggs
  ---01/15/2015 09:56:56 AM---Hi all. Proposed text for aria-placeholder
  follows. It's lifted pretty much

  From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
  To: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
  Date: 01/15/2015 09:56 AM
  Subject: ACTION-1349: Creation of aria-placeholder




  Hi all.

  Proposed text for aria-placeholder follows. It's lifted pretty much
  verbatim from the HTML5 spec. Thoughts?

  <proposal>
  Represents a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid the
  user with data entry when the control has no value. A hint could be a
  sample value or a brief description of the expected format.

  Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the text
  inside a blank unfocused control.

  Note: As is the case with the related HTML placeholder attribute, use of
  placeholder text as a replacement for a displayed label can reduce the
  accessibility and usability of the control for a range of users
  including older users and users with cognitive, mobility, fine motor
  skill or vision impairments. While the hint given by the control's label
  is shown at all times, the short hint given in the placeholder attribute
  is only shown before the user enters a value. Furthermore, placeholder
  text may be mistaken for a pre-filled value, and as commonly implemented
  the default color of the placeholder text provides insufficient contrast
  and the lack of a separate visible label reduces the size of the hit
  region available for setting focus on the control.
  </proposal>

  --joanie