Re: article navigation

As was stated before lists are navigated using a standard input mechanism.
These are static. Also, lists don't typically have an infinite stream of
list items which a feed would have. Tabbing does not work either as you end
up landing on embedded links. A feed should also have additional input
mechanisms to go home or end.

I don't agree that an article should ever be a landmark. I don't want to
bring up a list of a 1000 landmarks on a page. This is why I have always
argued about having them being a landmark. In the case of a Facebook or
Twitter Feed the list could be enormous.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:	James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:	public-aria@w3.org, PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:	12/01/2015 04:06 PM
Subject:	Re: article navigation




      On Dec 1, 2015, at 10:01 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com
      > wrote:



      So, one of the things we have added is a "feed" role that takes a
      list of articles. So, at least in this instance you know that
      articles within a feed are part of the feed.


Why does the user need to care about that? Seems like main > article or
list > listitem would suffice.


      The user needs to be able jump between articles within a feed without
      and still be able to navigate the contents of each article.


This is a case for making article a landmark, whether or not it's in
another type of container role.


      Facebook will be implementing for its infinite feeds. They
      implemented these "J" and "k" keyboard commands to navigate among the
      articles (you can try it on Facebook). This won't fly in a mobile
      touch device so I was hoping we could leverage something you were
      doing for articles. ... however if you have suggestions about how
      that could be done on a mobile device that would be great.

      I have a product team who can already make use of feeds. I am not
      sure if you looked at it yet but here it is:

      http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#feed


I looked at it. I don't see a compelling case for feed > article over just
loose articles in the page or main...

James



      Rich Schwerdtfeger

      Inactive hide details for James Craig ---11/30/2015 08:56:44 PM--->
      On Nov 30, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwerJames
      Craig ---11/30/2015 08:56:44 PM---> On Nov 30, 2015, at 11:52 AM,
      Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote: >

      From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
      To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
      Cc: PF <public-pfwg@w3.org>, public-aria@w3.org
      Date: 11/30/2015 08:56 PM
      Subject: Re: article navigation






      > On Nov 30, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
      schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
      >
      > Hi James,
      >
      > Does VoiceOver have a gesture navigation capability to move among
      articles on iOS?

      No. VO has a rotor for landmarks, but article is not a landmark.

      Also, are you referring to ARIA's article role, or HTML's <article>
      element? IIRC, there was also some concern that the <article> element
      was being overused, and a direct 1:1 mapping to the ARIA article role
      would result in false positives. We'd need heuristics in the engines
      to snuff of the extraneous articles like we have for layout tables
      and listitis overuse.

      James

      PS. "feed" seems a out-of-scope for a 1.1 criteria, does it not? Why
      is a list of articles in a feed more or less semantic than a list of
      article outside a feed? Does the end user need to know about the
      difference? If not, cut it.