Re: Proposal to change documentation on tabindex to strongly discourage values greater 0

While I agree than positive tabindex is normally a bad idea what we really need is a replacement that is usable rather than forbidding the use of the only tool that people have available to them to change the focus order. 
What we really need is some sort of scoped version of tabindex where we can control the focus order within a region without it affecting the entire page. 

Regards,
James


> On Oct 16, 2014, at 09:16, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com> wrote:
> 
> +1!
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> +1!!!!!!! 
>> 
>> 
>> Matt King
>> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
>> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
>> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
>> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398 
>> mattking@us.ibm.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        Joseph Scheuhammer <clown@alum.mit.edu> 
>> To:        Marco Zehe <mzehe@mozilla.com>, public-html@w3.org, 
>> Cc:        W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org> 
>> Date:        10/16/2014 07:47 AM 
>> Subject:        Re: Proposal to change documentation on tabindex to strongly discourage  values greater 0 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> Regarding the proposed changes, there is a need to handle old markup 
>> that uses tabindex values greater than 0.  A possibility is that 
>> browsers treat tabindex=1+ as if it were tabindex=0.
>> 
>> > [CC'ing Public PFWG list for info]
>> >
>> > Hello all!
>> >
>> > This is a proposal to declare tabIndex values > 0 invalid in the spec 
>> > and the validator, or at least strongly advise against the use of 
>> > positive integers values for this attribute.
>> > Rationale: The tabIndex attribute is used to make items focusable with 
>> > the keyboard and programmatically. Currently, it takes three classes 
>> > of values:
>> >
>> >   * 0: The element is made focusable, and it is integrated into the
>> >     tab order at its location in the DOM.
>> >   * -1: The element is made focusable, but is skipped in the tab
>> >     order, but can still take focus programmatically.
>> >   * > 0: The items are put in the tab order first, and their order is
>> >     determined by the actual value. Only if all those elements have
>> >     been traversed via tab, does the order in the DOM take effect.
>> >
>> > This third class of values has in the past lead to nothing but 
>> > frustration among web developers and keyboard users, judging from 
>> > feedback I get in my day to day accessibility work. Due to author 
>> > error, which mostly stems from lack of awareness, tab order on many 
>> > sites that use tabIndex improperly is erratic and not user-friendly. 
>> > For further reading on this, I suggest a post published on the 
>> > Paciello Group blog by Léonie Watson in August of 2014:
>> > http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/08/using-the-tabindex-attribute/
>> >
>> > Proposed changes:
>> >
>> >  1. Include explicit advice to not use tabIndex with a value greater
>> >     than 0 in the next version of the documentation.
>> >  2. Change the W3C validator to spit out an error on tabIndex values
>> >     other than 0 and -1.
>> >
>> >
>> > Associated bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27076
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Marco
>> 
>> -- 
>> ;;;;joseph.
>> 
>> 'Array(16).join("wat" - 1) + " Batman!"'
>>            - G. Bernhardt -
>