- From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 03:16:09 -0500
- To: "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
- CC: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>, Gerardo Capiel <gerardoc@benetech.org>, public-pfwg <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Hi, Lisa– Actually, I have a proposal (and script library) for native graphs in SVG, called SVG Connectors [1]. That way, graphs wouldn't need ARIA; if graphs were native constructions in SVG, both visually and "logically", they would have the benefit of being accessible without so much extra authoring effort. I have to carve out some time (at least a couple weeks) to revise this spec and make it more rigorous and detailed, but the SVG WG has tentatively accepted it as a deliverable already. About the aim being higher, this is what I was cautioning about. I've thought pretty deeply about this for a few years, and I agree that there are some simple ways to categorize most charts, but I want to start from clear use cases, like the ones we had for the sonifier. I'd love to talk to you more about this at your convenience. [1] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/connector/SVGConnector.html Regards- -Doug On 1/24/14 2:40 AM, lisa.seeman wrote: > Hi Doug > This is very interesting. I think some of these would be properties not > roles. I feel that the aim should be higher - to make machine > processable/ understandable graphs and charts. and the value for apps > would be huge. > > My initial suggestion for roles for this type of graphs and charts is: > > 1. node (vertex in graph theory ) > 2. line (or we could call it connection or data-line /- edge / in graph > theory/, /but let us worry what to call it if we like the concepts) > > A group role of graph would also be good -( possibly also a child of > figure - but we havent come to it yet) that might be what you inteded > as chart area. A graph must contain nodes and/or lines. > > Nodes could support your properties > * property x-y pair : x-value, y-value (possibly suport 4 pairs if > nodes can be bigger then a dot) In a pie chart the sections could be > nodes and they would have a simple value . > > Lines could connect two nodes or have a start x y pair and an end x y > pair. (need to work on the semantics) > > A graph could support properties of > * property : x-axis - what is the denomination of the x axis such as > mm rainfall or thousands of Yen (possibly deliminated list , possibly > associated with value pairs -see bellow) > * property : y-axis - as above > > Most importantly we need to support symbol value pairs or classes and > work that into the model. > For example we need to be able to say blue represents the northern > train line (on an edge) or squares represent stations with escalators > (for a node) or pink represents 2002 values and blue represents 2006 > values. > > If we agree let me know and I will start thinking of the semantics for > it. It will work better of we know if we are alowing extedability, > becuse then a square node would simply be a type of node with label of > "stations with escalators" > > All the best > > Lisa Seeman > > Athena ICT Accessibility Projects > <http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/default.shtml> > LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter > <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa> > > > > > ---- On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 07:45:30 +0200 *Doug Schepers<schepers@w3.org>* > wrote ---- > > Hi, Janina, Rich– > > Judy informed me today that you are at the PFWG f2f, gathering use > cases > and requirements for the future of ARIA beyond ARIA 1.0. > > I'd like to make sure that you are aware of a use case that we have for > SVG around accessible information graphics. (I don't know the proper > list, so forgive me if this isn't the right one.) > > Basically, to allow scripts (or even accessibility UAs) to be able to > interpret charts and graphs, we need to be able to mark up specific > elements with descriptive roles. > > This could go off the rails if we're not careful, because it will be > new > work, not something that mirrors existing OS-level accessibility APIs; > so, we need to be moderate and spare in what new roles and states we > define, especially at first. > > The specific case we've explored this for is a sonifier app [1][2][3] > that I worked on with Benetech, which takes an SVG line chart as input > and uses the Web Audio API to generate a tone that rises and falls > based > on the position of a cursor on the line. In order to get the > sonifier to > work, I had to manually configure it to detect hardcoded elements from > known output, based on their element type and position in the DOM; this > is too brittle to work on any other output. > > So, I'm proposing the following roles, based on this use case; some of > them can be generalized to other charts, as well: > > * role: x-axis > * role: y-axis > * role: data-line > * role: chart-area (?) > * role: chart-width (?) > * role: chart-height (?) > > The latter 3 are subject to discussion; we need to know the extent > of of > the width and height of the chart, and this could easily be determined > by a <rect> or <path> element that is given the role of "chart-area", > but we need to determine if we want to require that having such an > element is required for making the chart accessible, or if we could get > the width and height some other way; I think <rect > role="chart-area"> is > the easiest approach, but I'm open to other ideas. > > Rich knows about this from discussions he and Gerardo and I have > had, at > the SVG f2f at TPAC. We will write this up in a more formal way in the > coming weeks, but I wanted to be timely about reporting it, in case > Rich > didn't raise the issue. > > I'm happy to dial into a telcon to discuss this if you have time on > your > agenda. > > [1] http://svg-sonifier.com/index.svg > [2] https://github.com/benetech/SVG-Sonifier > [3] https://github.com/shepazu/SVG-Sonifier > > Regards- > -Doug > >
Received on Friday, 24 January 2014 08:16:23 UTC