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Re: Effect of role=presentation on img elements with svg

From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:58:16 -0800
Cc: public-pfwg@w3.org, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>, "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net>
Message-id: <CC795488-DE1C-4F8B-815E-E21D75AAAFA2@apple.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>

On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:04 AM, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:

> James Craig, Mon, 03 Feb 2014 17:45:02 -0800:
>>>> I think the core of this debate is still that the name “presentation” 
>>>> has historically meant, that the entire sub-tree is devoid of 
>>>> semantic meaning,
> 
> Agreed. That’s how the thinking goes.
> 
> For my own part, I did not think that way about e.g. <table 
> role=presentation>, but I did think that way about <img 
> src="table.svg">.
> 
>>>> but that’s not what role="presentation" means, 
>>>> which is why we’re talking about choosing a new name. There is too 
>>>> much historical baggage that comes with that term. 
> 
> Has the component for reporting ARIA bugs been set up?

The group agreed to adopt this approach in general, but Michael is still working out some of the details related to how this will affect formal comment tracking, so we’re still using the private W3C tracker in the meantime.

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23803

> Here are some things that I think ARIA 1.1. should be updated with:
> 
> 1. Presentation role section should have more examples, to explain the 
> ”edge” cases, such as the fact that role="presentation" does not 
> prevent AT from looking into the subdom of resources referenced via 
> @src (and I suppose of @data, of the object element). Would also be 
> good to exemplify edge cases such as <video role="presentation"> - what 
> its effect is (not).

ACTION-1380: #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1380

ACTION-1381: TAC and #presentation should cover shadow-DOM descendants (e.g. <video controls> in some user agents)
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1381

> 3. Definition of ”descendants”, in connection with the accessible name 
> calculation, so that readers of ARIA understand that ”descendants” is 
> not only only child elements but also elements of resources that a 
> linked to the element via @src, @data or (I think) otherwise.

ACTION-1379: TAC should cover rendered descendants from external sources: svg, iframe, etc. (Compose text and get final review form ARIA subteam)
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1379

> 4. Clarification, for role=Presentation, of what ”implicit native role 
> semantics” covers and what it does *not* cover. Definition and examples.

If I understand you correctly, that’s up for each host language to declare (e.g. img@alt in HTML), but I can put in some examples with the actions listed above.

Thanks Leif,
James
Received on Wednesday, 5 February 2014 18:58:44 UTC

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