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RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:24:27 -0800
To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
Cc: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>, "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, "'James Nurthen'" <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, "public-pfwg@w3.org" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <OF2A49D798.97ECE8A9-ON88257DA8.006A7F2A-88257DA8.006A9CB9@notes.na.collabserv.com>
APG task force is now meeting on Mondays at 10 Seattle time ... the old 
aria time. I post agendas to this list.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:   Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
To:     Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, Birkir Gunnarsson 
<birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>, 
Cc:     "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, "'James 
Nurthen'" <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, "public-pfwg@w3.org" 
<public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:   12/08/2014 11:17 AM
Subject:        RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive 
technology bugs (alert  dialog)



Matthew said
“I do agree that it could be beneficial for us to discuss AT buts that are 
directly related to the patterns we are working on as a group”
 
I would like to participate in this if possible, starting in the new year. 
 I’m investigating where IE + Narrator needs work on this.  Which 
group/meeting is working on this?  Can someone send me the logistic 
details?
 
From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 9:52 AM
To: Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: 'Bryan Garaventa'; 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs 
(alert dialog)
 
Birkir, 

According to the spec, you need this: 

<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1” aria-describedby="foo2" 
instead of putting aria-describedby on the close button. 

That is what I do in our apps, and it works with both JAWS and NVDA. JAWS 
even reads it correctly with insert+b. 

I do not have teams put role="document" around foo2. That should not be 
necessary. And, the changes to the definition of role dialog we put in for 
ARIA 1.1 make that yet more clear. 

I do agree that it could be beneficial for us to discuss AT buts that are 
directly related to the patterns we are working on as a group so AT 
vendors get consistent messaging. I don't see a problem with raising the 
discussions on the pf list. 

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com 



From:        "Birkir Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> 
To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, "'Bryan Garaventa'" <
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, 
Cc:        "'James Nurthen'" <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, <
public-pfwg@w3.org> 
Date:        12/07/2014 12:13 PM 
Subject:        ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology 
bugs (alert dialog) 




Greetings everyone 
  
Matt/James, this might be an overload if sent to the whole list, would you 
propose that a smaller group of us discuss individual bugs? 
I know it is unrelated to the specific agenda for last week, but I have 
been thoroughly writing and testing a simple alert dialog. 
I am not sure if I can send the specific code yet, (in any case sending it 
to a mailing list is hardly the way to go), but thte skeleton is: 
  
<code> 
<button>some button that displays a dialog and moves focus to the “close” 
button inside the dialog container</button> 
<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1”> 
<h2 id=”foo1”>Warning</h2> 
<p id=”foo2”>The message of the alert dialog</p> 
<!-- this button receives focus when dialog is displayed à 
<button id=”dialogclose”>Close</button> 
</div> 
</code> 
  
Screen reader observations: 
Jaws 16 with IE10 – Will not read the alert dialog text unless 
aria-describedby is used on the close button to connect it with the 
paragraph (<button aria-describedby=“foo2”>close</button>). 
It reads label of dialog and the word “dialog”, then “close button” .. but 
not the text, unless aria-describedby is present. 
Also Jaws will ignore targets of aria-describedby when its general 
verbosity level is set to “advanced”. 
I know an issue has been filed for that, but Jaws 16 has not addressed 
this. 
  
NVDA 2014.4 with FF33: 
If the text of the dialog message (p with id=”foo2”> is assigned 
role=”document” (as recommended in the spec as I understand it), NVDA 
2014.4 will not read it, neither when the dialog is displayed, nor using 
aria-describedby = “foo2” on the close button. 
The only way to see it is to force browse mode and use arrow keys to 
locate the message. 
  
If role=”document is removed from paragraph with id=”foo2” , 
NVDA will read the alert message when dialog is displayed. 
If aria-describedby=”foo2” is present on the close button, it will read 
the message, the close button, then the message again. 
  
I have not studied the browsers accessibility API yet. 
  
I propose that two a.t. vendor bugs be filed (given the outcome of 
inspecting the browser). 
Jaws: 
-        Should read content of alert dialog role automatically when focus 
is moved into it. 
NVDA 
-        Should not let role=”document” disassociate the message from 
role=”alertdialog” and aria-describedby. 
  
If we plan to create a repository of bugs based around our own examples, 
we can add these to that when the time comes, and if the bug still exists. 

I expect to file these on my own, but any kind of official filing or 
recording by the group may encourage vendors to get things fixed. 
Thanks 
-Birkir 
  

Received on Monday, 8 December 2014 19:25:42 UTC

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