RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

Matthew

Thanks for the pointer.

For some reason aria-describedby on the container did not work for me initially. I guess I made some coding error.

It does now, for the most part.

I am unable to make Jaws 16 professional speak the dialog with IE10 on a Windows 8 machine.

(it does with FF, and NVDA does with both FF and IE).

If you wouldn’t mind, could you send me an email off-line, if you have time, and we can compare and see if it is my system or a possible A.T. problem.

Thanks

 

 

From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 12:52 PM
To: Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: 'Bryan Garaventa'; 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

 

Birkir, 

According to the spec, you need this: 

<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1” aria-describedby="foo2" instead of putting aria-describedby on the close button. 

That is what I do in our apps, and it works with both JAWS and NVDA. JAWS even reads it correctly with insert+b. 

I do not have teams put role="document" around foo2. That should not be necessary. And, the changes to the definition of role dialog we put in for ARIA 1.1 make that yet more clear. 

I do agree that it could be beneficial for us to discuss AT buts that are directly related to the patterns we are working on as a group so AT vendors get consistent messaging. I don't see a problem with raising the discussions on the pf list. 

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com 



From:        "Birkir Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> 
To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, 
Cc:        "'James Nurthen'" <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, <public-pfwg@w3.org> 
Date:        12/07/2014 12:13 PM 
Subject:        ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog) 

  _____  




Greetings everyone 

  

Matt/James, this might be an overload if sent to the whole list, would you propose that a smaller group of us discuss individual bugs? 

I know it is unrelated to the specific agenda for last week, but I have been thoroughly writing and testing a simple alert dialog. 

I am not sure if I can send the specific code yet, (in any case sending it to a mailing list is hardly the way to go), but thte skeleton is: 

  

<code> 

<button>some button that displays a dialog and moves focus to the “close” button inside the dialog container</button> 

<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1”> 

<h2 id=”foo1”>Warning</h2> 

<p id=”foo2”>The message of the alert dialog</p> 

<!-- this button receives focus when dialog is displayed à 

<button id=”dialogclose”>Close</button> 

</div> 

</code> 

  

Screen reader observations: 

Jaws 16 with IE10 – Will not read the alert dialog text unless aria-describedby is used on the close button to connect it with the paragraph (<button aria-describedby=“foo2”>close</button>). 

It reads label of dialog and the word “dialog”, then “close button” .. but not the text, unless aria-describedby is present. 

Also Jaws will ignore targets of aria-describedby when its general verbosity level is set to “advanced”. 

I know an issue has been filed for that, but Jaws 16 has not addressed this. 

  

NVDA 2014.4 with FF33: 

If the text of the dialog message (p with id=”foo2”> is assigned role=”document” (as recommended in the spec as I understand it), NVDA 2014.4 will not read it, neither when the dialog is displayed, nor using aria-describedby = “foo2” on the close button. 

The only way to see it is to force browse mode and use arrow keys to locate the message. 

  

If role=”document is removed from paragraph with id=”foo2” , 

NVDA will read the alert message when dialog is displayed. 

If aria-describedby=”foo2” is present on the close button, it will read the message, the close button, then the message again. 

  

I have not studied the browsers accessibility API yet. 

  

I propose that two a.t. vendor bugs be filed (given the outcome of inspecting the browser). 

Jaws: 

-        Should read content of alert dialog role automatically when focus is moved into it. 

NVDA 

-        Should not let role=”document” disassociate the message from role=”alertdialog” and aria-describedby. 

  

If we plan to create a repository of bugs based around our own examples, we can add these to that when the time comes, and if the bug still exists. 

I expect to file these on my own, but any kind of official filing or recording by the group may encourage vendors to get things fixed. 

Thanks 

-Birkir