Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action

Hi Matt,

thanks for giving this so much thought! I like this suggestion, too. I will
have a chance to talk to at least one developer this wek who was involved
in creating this control for the Firefox UI, and we'll see that we can
settle on the most useful pattern.

Marco



On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> I strongly recommend against another button role for split buttons.
>
> Instead, if we develop a design pattern that treats the split button as a
> single menubutton for keyboard users but as a button with 2 click targets
> for mouse users, it can be both keyboard accessible and simple for screen
> reader users to understand.
>
> For mouse users, nothing would change. There is one target for the default
> command button and another for the menu down arrow icon. Mouse users have
> the somewhat dubious advantage of a single click path to execute the
> default command.
>
> However, in this pattern, for keyboard users, there is a single focusable
> element that includes both the command button and the down arrow. This
> element is marked up as a menu button. Pressing enter, space, or down opens
> the menu (equal to clicking down arrow) and sets focus on the menuitem for
> the default command. Pressing enter or space again activates the default
> command. Up/down moves to the other menu options.
>
> With this implementation, a keyboard user need only press enter or space
> twice to execute the default command. This is a negligible inconvenience
> that would save users from having to learn about a completely new kind of
> control that gives them no real advantage. Even more, it saves all of us
> from the complexity of implementing a new role in all the accessibility
> APIs that would not provide any clear benefit to end users.
>
> This pattern would stray from what is currently recommended for the
> Windows platform by Microsoft. But, I do not think there would be any
> confusion caused by the variation because it is simply reuse of already
> well-understood and very well supported patterns. Perhaps Microsoft would
> consider adopting it.
>
> The pattern does require that the the command button part of the split
> button would need to be a click target with no keyboard handler. We can
> work on ways of coding this that would still work with validaters.
> Basically, the accessible control is the down arrow and the command button
> portion is mere eye-candy for keyboard users.
>
>
> Matt King
> IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
> I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
> IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
> Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
> mattking@us.ibm.com
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---08/09/2014 12:33:03
> AM---Personally, I’d recommend the same as Matt. The problem]Bryan
> Garaventa ---08/09/2014 12:33:03 AM---Personally, I’d recommend the same as
> Matt. The problem with the split button functionality, is that
>
> From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
> To: Marco Zehe <marco.zehe@gmail.com>,
> Cc: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <
> public-pfwg@w3.org>
> Date: 08/09/2014 12:33 AM
> Subject: RE: Question about a menubutton with a default action
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Personally, I’d recommend the same as Matt.
>
> The problem with the split button functionality, is that it’s not
> intuitive and there is no indication to the user how it is supposed to
> work. Case in point, I’ve been using Win7 for a couple of years now and
> have shut down my computer thousands of times in that time, but never knew
> this dual functionality existed till you mentioned how to use it.
>
> *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com <marco.zehe@gmail.com>]
> * Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 10:57 PM
> * To:* Bryan Garaventa
> * Cc:* James Craig; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
> * Subject:* Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
> Sorry about that! ;) Any suggestions on how to proceed? Should I just see
> that we expose this as a split button somehow, and count on users to know
> how to interact, or should I try and push for a change to what Matt
> suggested? I personally would feel better with the latter, but am not sure
> how hard this fight might become. Moreover, there is no ARIA role for split
> buttons AFAIK. At least I didn't find one. And in Windows 8.1, this thing
> is no longer a split button, it has no role whatsoever, but acts like a
> normal menu button.
> Suggestions still welcome!
> Marco
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Bryan Garaventa <
> *bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com* <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>
> wrote:
>
>    Ah, I see what you mean, I just shut down my computer twice by
>    accident trying to test this thing using Space and Enter…
>
>    It’s not the Down arrow that opens the popup menu items, but Right
>    arrow, which makes it act like a submenu of a parent menu item.
>
>    I guess it’s theoretically possible to do this using ARIA on a menu
>    item, if a proper description is added, but this would only work within a
>    menu, and not on a standalone button, because the modes of navigation are
>    totally different.
>
>
>    *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:*marco.zehe@gmail.com*
>    <marco.zehe@gmail.com>]
> * Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 10:29 PM
> * To:* Bryan Garaventa
> * Cc:* James Craig; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
>
> * Subject:* Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
>    Hi Bryan,
>    no, he is referring to the split button that is in the start menu. In
>    fact, another colleague chimed in that this control is meant to be a clone
>    of Microsoft's split button rather than menu button. He also quotes
>    (although without an actual reference) that Microsoft suggest Space to
>    perform the default action, and DownArrow to open a menu of the default +
>    other options. The access key should open the menu, with the default option
>    highlighted.
>    I just checked, and WAI-ARIA doesn't mention split buttons at all,
>    neither in the spec nor in the authoring practices.
>    Marco
>
>    On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
>    *bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com* <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>
>    wrote:
>       Is he referring to the dialog that pops up if you press Alt+F4 when
>       the desktop has focus?
>
>       This is a “combo box” in the Accessibility Tree, not a button.
>
>
>
>       *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:*marco.zehe@gmail.com*
>       <marco.zehe@gmail.com>]
> * Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 12:09 PM
> * To:* James Craig
> * Cc:* Bryan Garaventa; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
> * Subject:* Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
>       Hi Matt, Birkir, and Bryan,
>       any thoughts on the example one of our developers gives in *comment
>       24* <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226#c24> of
>       the relevant Mozilla bug? Namely the example that aaparently stood model
>       for our interaction: the Windows 7 shutdown button menu thingie on the
>       Start panel.
>       Windows 8.1 no longer has that, it's a regular menu button there
>       that opens on press of the Space bar.
>       Marco
>
>       On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:41 PM, James Craig <*jcraig@apple.com*
>       <jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:
>          I was going to echo Matt's sentiment here. These are two
>          controls, a button and a second popup button that launches a menu (aka menu
>          button). When each is focused, Spacebar or Return should activate either.
>          When the menu is launched, focus should move into the menu and arrow keys
>          should manipulate the selected menu item.
>
>          As for the authoring guide:
>
>
>    ·
>    - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>    Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>
>
>
>    That needs to say "selected menu item or first menu item."
>
>
>       On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Marco Zehe <*marco.zehe@gmail.com*
>       <marco.zehe@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>       Bryan, I totally second your view that Space should open the menu
>       as well. It always drives me nuts if a menu button does not do it, like
>       some on FaceBook, for example. The ones on Google like in Gmail don't
>       require me to switch out of virtual mode to get them popped up, on
>       FaceBook, they do.
>       I would, therefore, second a change to the authoring guide to this
>       effect. Strongly! :)
>       Marco
>
>       On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
>       *bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com*
>       <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>          Regarding the use of the Down arrow to trigger a menu, I believe
>          this exposes an issue in the ARIA authoring guide at
>          *http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton*
>          <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton>
>
>          Where it states:
>
>
>
>    Keyboard Interaction:
>
>
>    - Space or Enter - With focus on the button pressing Space or Enter will
>    toggle the display of the drop-down menu. Focus remains on the button.
>    - Down Arrow -
>       - With focus on the button and no drop-down menu displayed,
>       pressing Down Arrow will open the drop-down menu and move focus
>       into the menu and onto the first menu item.
>       - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>       Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>    - Up and Down Arrow - With focus on the drop-down menu, the Up and Down
>    Arrow keys move focus within the menu items, "wrapping" at the top and
>    bottom.
>    - Escape - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing Escape closes
>    the menu and returns focus to the button.
>    - Tab -
>       - With focus on the button pressing the Tab key will take the user
>       to the next tab focusable item on the page.
>       - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing the Tab key will take
>       the user to the next tab focusable item on the page. Note that this may be
>       difficult to achieve on a web page.
>    - Typing a letter (printable character) key moves focus to the next
>    instance of a visible node whose title begins with that printable letter.
>
>
>
>    If focus remains on the button when the Enter or Space key is pressed,
>    there is no indication that a menu has opened for an AT user, which is why
>    setting focus to the first menu item works best for invoking the correct
>    navigational mode as well as for indicating that an action has occurred.
>    Also, the paradigm for invoking a menu on the platform always moves focus
>    into a menu, so that the arrow keys can be immediately used for navigation.
>
>    Additionally, if the Down arrow is used to invoke a menu, it doesn’t
>    account for ATs like screen readers that use virtual offscreen models such
>    as JAWS and NVDA, where the Down arrow moves to the next line in the
>    virtual buffer, and is never passed through to the button.
>
>
>    *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:*marco.zehe@gmail.com*
>    <marco.zehe@gmail.com>]
> * Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 3:58 AM
>
> * To:* W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
>    *Subject:* Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
>
>    Hi there!
>    I need some advice here... You know in Firefox, we have these
>    doorhangers that pop up when, for example, a site asks you if you want to
>    save a password. The button to save the password is actually a menu button
>    with a default action, and a downward pointing arrow to open a menu of more
>    options. That menu doesn't currently contain the default action. So the
>    mouse interaction is: Click on the left side, e. g. the button label,
>    performs the default action of saving the password. Clicking on the downard
>    pointing arrow will open the popup menu.
>    The current keyboard interaction is buggy at best. The access key
>    doesn't work correctly, and the button has two tab stops, one for the menu
>    button piece, one for the default action.
>    Now, I've read up on the default *expected behavior for menubuttons*
>    <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton>, but these don't
>    cover the case of a menu button that also has a default action. Nor is
>    there a different role available in IA2 or other platform APIs that I know
>    of that would cover this scenario in a way that the end user immediately
>    knows what's going on.
>    My first reaction to the question of how this interaction should be,
>    was this:
>    1. Pressing the access key should focus the menubutton, but not
>       activate anything.
>       2. Space should activate the default action.
>       3. Down Arrow should open the menu.
>
>    The problem here is that current best practices suggest that both
>    space and down arrow pop up the menu. And there is no good way to actually
>    tell the user that space would, in this case, do the default action and set
>    focus back on the page afterwards.
>
>    Any ideas or suggestion on how to best solve this would be
>    appreciated. We could do an ARIA description for this particular button
>    that tells the users on focus that space will submit the default action,
>    and down arrow opens the menu for more options. But the best way would be
>    if we had a best practices guide somewhere that would include this special
>    scenario, or settle on a good way forward for these in general.
>
>    Welcoming your comments!
>
>    Marco
>
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>    --
>    Indifference towards people and the reality in
>    which they live is actually the one and only
>    cardinal sin in design. — Dieter Rams
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