Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action

Hi Bryan,
no, he is referring to the split button that is in the start menu. In fact,
another colleague chimed in that this control is meant to be a clone of
Microsoft's split button rather than menu button. He also quotes (although
without an actual reference) that Microsoft suggest Space to perform the
default action, and DownArrow to open a menu of the default + other
options. The access key should open the menu, with the default option
highlighted.
I just checked, and WAI-ARIA doesn't mention split buttons at all, neither
in the spec nor in the authoring practices.
Marco



On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

>  Is he referring to the dialog that pops up if you press Alt+F4 when the
> desktop has focus?
>
>
>
> This is a “combo box” in the Accessibility Tree, not a button.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 12:09 PM
> *To:* James Craig
> *Cc:* Bryan Garaventa; W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
> *Subject:* Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
>
>
> Hi Matt, Birkir, and Bryan,
>
> any thoughts on the example one of our developers gives in comment 24
> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226#c24> of the relevant
> Mozilla bug? Namely the example that aaparently stood model for our
> interaction: the Windows 7 shutdown button menu thingie on the Start panel.
>
> Windows 8.1 no longer has that, it's a regular menu button there that
> opens on press of the Space bar.
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:41 PM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
>
>  I was going to echo Matt's sentiment here. These are two controls, a
> button and a second popup button that launches a menu (aka menu button).
> When each is focused, Spacebar or Return should activate either. When the
> menu is launched, focus should move into the menu and arrow keys should
> manipulate the selected menu item.
>
>
>
> As for the authoring guide:
>
>      ·
>
>     - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>       Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>
>
>
> That needs to say "selected menu item or first menu item."
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Marco Zehe <marco.zehe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bryan, I totally second your view that Space should open the menu as well.
> It always drives me nuts if a menu button does not do it, like some on
> FaceBook, for example. The ones on Google like in Gmail don't require me to
> switch out of virtual mode to get them popped up, on FaceBook, they do.
>
> I would, therefore, second a change to the authoring guide to this effect.
> Strongly! :)
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>  Regarding the use of the Down arrow to trigger a menu, I believe this
> exposes an issue in the ARIA authoring guide at
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton
>
>
>
> Where it states:
>
>
>
> Keyboard Interaction:
>
>    - Space or Enter - With focus on the button pressing Space or Enter
>    will toggle the display of the drop-down menu. Focus remains on the button.
>    - Down Arrow -
>       - With focus on the button and no drop-down menu displayed,
>       pressing Down Arrow will open the drop-down menu and move focus
>       into the menu and onto the first menu item.
>       - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>       Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>    - Up and Down Arrow - With focus on the drop-down menu, the Up and Down
>    Arrow keys move focus within the menu items, "wrapping" at the top and
>    bottom.
>    - Escape - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing Escape closes
>    the menu and returns focus to the button.
>    - Tab -
>       - With focus on the button pressing the Tab key will take the user
>       to the next tab focusable item on the page.
>       - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing the Tab key will take
>       the user to the next tab focusable item on the page. Note that this may be
>       difficult to achieve on a web page.
>    - Typing a letter (printable character) key moves focus to the next
>    instance of a visible node whose title begins with that printable letter.
>
>
>
> If focus remains on the button when the Enter or Space key is pressed,
> there is no indication that a menu has opened for an AT user, which is why
> setting focus to the first menu item works best for invoking the correct
> navigational mode as well as for indicating that an action has occurred.
> Also, the paradigm for invoking a menu on the platform always moves focus
> into a menu, so that the arrow keys can be immediately used for navigation.
>
>
>
> Additionally, if the Down arrow is used to invoke a menu, it doesn’t
> account for ATs like screen readers that use virtual offscreen models such
> as JAWS and NVDA, where the Down arrow moves to the next line in the
> virtual buffer, and is never passed through to the button.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 3:58 AM
>
>
> *To:* W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
>
> *Subject:* Question about a menubutton with a default action
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi there!
>
> I need some advice here... You know in Firefox, we have these doorhangers
> that pop up when, for example, a site asks you if you want to save a
> password. The button to save the password is actually a menu button with a
> default action, and a downward pointing arrow to open a menu of more
> options. That menu doesn't currently contain the default action. So the
> mouse interaction is: Click on the left side, e. g. the button label,
> performs the default action of saving the password. Clicking on the downard
> pointing arrow will open the popup menu.
>
> The current keyboard interaction is buggy at best. The access key doesn't
> work correctly, and the button has two tab stops, one for the menu button
> piece, one for the default action.
>
> Now, I've read up on the default expected behavior for menubuttons
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton>, but these don't
> cover the case of a menu button that also has a default action. Nor is
> there a different role available in IA2 or other platform APIs that I know
> of that would cover this scenario in a way that the end user immediately
> knows what's going on.
>
> My first reaction to the question of how this interaction should be, was
> this:
>
>    1. Pressing the access key should focus the menubutton, but not
>    activate anything.
>    2. Space should activate the default action.
>    3. Down Arrow should open the menu.
>
> The problem here is that current best practices suggest that both space
> and down arrow pop up the menu. And there is no good way to actually tell
> the user that space would, in this case, do the default action and set
> focus back on the page afterwards.
>
> Any ideas or suggestion on how to best solve this would be appreciated. We
> could do an ARIA description for this particular button that tells the
> users on focus that space will submit the default action, and down arrow
> opens the menu for more options. But the best way would be if we had a best
> practices guide somewhere that would include this special scenario, or
> settle on a good way forward for these in general.
>
> Welcoming your comments!
>
> Marco
>
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>
> --
> Indifference towards people and the reality in
>
> which they live is actually the one and only
>
> cardinal sin in design. — Dieter Rams
>
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