Re: Question about a menubutton with a default action

Hi Matt, Birkir, and Bryan,

any thoughts on the example one of our developers gives in comment 24
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226#c24> of the relevant
Mozilla bug? Namely the example that aaparently stood model for our
interaction: the Windows 7 shutdown button menu thingie on the Start panel.
Windows 8.1 no longer has that, it's a regular menu button there that opens
on press of the Space bar.
Marco



On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:41 PM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:

> I was going to echo Matt's sentiment here. These are two controls, a
> button and a second popup button that launches a menu (aka menu button).
> When each is focused, Spacebar or Return should activate either. When the
> menu is launched, focus should move into the menu and arrow keys should
> manipulate the selected menu item.
>
> As for the authoring guide:
>
>
>>    -
>>       - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>>       Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>>
>>
> That needs to say "selected menu item or first menu item."
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Marco Zehe <marco.zehe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bryan, I totally second your view that Space should open the menu as well.
> It always drives me nuts if a menu button does not do it, like some on
> FaceBook, for example. The ones on Google like in Gmail don't require me to
> switch out of virtual mode to get them popped up, on FaceBook, they do.
> I would, therefore, second a change to the authoring guide to this effect.
> Strongly! :)
> Marco
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>  Regarding the use of the Down arrow to trigger a menu, I believe this
>> exposes an issue in the ARIA authoring guide at
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton
>>
>>
>>
>> Where it states:
>>
>>
>>
>> Keyboard Interaction:
>>
>>    - Space or Enter - With focus on the button pressing Space or Enter
>>    will toggle the display of the drop-down menu. Focus remains on the button.
>>    - Down Arrow -
>>       - With focus on the button and no drop-down menu displayed,
>>       pressing Down Arrow will open the drop-down menu and move focus
>>       into the menu and onto the first menu item.
>>       - With focus on the button and the drop-down menu open, pressing Down
>>       Arrow will move focus into the menu onto the first menu item.
>>    - Up and Down Arrow - With focus on the drop-down menu, the Up and Down
>>    Arrow keys move focus within the menu items, "wrapping" at the top
>>    and bottom.
>>    - Escape - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing Escape closes
>>    the menu and returns focus to the button.
>>    - Tab -
>>       - With focus on the button pressing the Tab key will take the user
>>       to the next tab focusable item on the page.
>>       - With focus on the drop-down menu, pressing the Tab key will take
>>       the user to the next tab focusable item on the page. Note that this may be
>>       difficult to achieve on a web page.
>>    - Typing a letter (printable character) key moves focus to the next
>>    instance of a visible node whose title begins with that printable letter.
>>
>>
>>
>> If focus remains on the button when the Enter or Space key is pressed,
>> there is no indication that a menu has opened for an AT user, which is why
>> setting focus to the first menu item works best for invoking the correct
>> navigational mode as well as for indicating that an action has occurred.
>> Also, the paradigm for invoking a menu on the platform always moves focus
>> into a menu, so that the arrow keys can be immediately used for navigation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Additionally, if the Down arrow is used to invoke a menu, it doesn’t
>> account for ATs like screen readers that use virtual offscreen models such
>> as JAWS and NVDA, where the Down arrow moves to the next line in the
>> virtual buffer, and is never passed through to the button.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Marco Zehe [mailto:marco.zehe@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 08, 2014 3:58 AM
>>
>> *To:* W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
>> *Subject:* Question about a menubutton with a default action
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi there!
>>
>> I need some advice here... You know in Firefox, we have these doorhangers
>> that pop up when, for example, a site asks you if you want to save a
>> password. The button to save the password is actually a menu button with a
>> default action, and a downward pointing arrow to open a menu of more
>> options. That menu doesn't currently contain the default action. So the
>> mouse interaction is: Click on the left side, e. g. the button label,
>> performs the default action of saving the password. Clicking on the downard
>> pointing arrow will open the popup menu.
>>
>> The current keyboard interaction is buggy at best. The access key doesn't
>> work correctly, and the button has two tab stops, one for the menu button
>> piece, one for the default action.
>>
>> Now, I've read up on the default expected behavior for menubuttons
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menubutton>, but these don't
>> cover the case of a menu button that also has a default action. Nor is
>> there a different role available in IA2 or other platform APIs that I know
>> of that would cover this scenario in a way that the end user immediately
>> knows what's going on.
>>
>> My first reaction to the question of how this interaction should be, was
>> this:
>>
>>    1. Pressing the access key should focus the menubutton, but not
>>    activate anything.
>>    2. Space should activate the default action.
>>    3. Down Arrow should open the menu.
>>
>> The problem here is that current best practices suggest that both space
>> and down arrow pop up the menu. And there is no good way to actually tell
>> the user that space would, in this case, do the default action and set
>> focus back on the page afterwards.
>>
>> Any ideas or suggestion on how to best solve this would be appreciated.
>> We could do an ARIA description for this particular button that tells the
>> users on focus that space will submit the default action, and down arrow
>> opens the menu for more options. But the best way would be if we had a best
>> practices guide somewhere that would include this special scenario, or
>> settle on a good way forward for these in general.
>>
>> Welcoming your comments!
>>
>> Marco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Indifference towards people and the reality in
> which they live is actually the one and only
> cardinal sin in design. — Dieter Rams
>
>