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Draft Minutes: September 23, 2013 WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

From: Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:37:43 +0000
To: "public-pfwg@w3.org" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <46739F12637CC94E82F75FF874E4A1471611E368@CITESMBX6.ad.uillinois.edu>

Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
23 Sep 2013
See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-irc>
+1.617.715.aaaa, [IPcaller], Judy, Janina_Sajka, Janina, Janina.a

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#agenda>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

<trackbot> Date: 23 September 2013
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<janina> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 23 September 2013
<richardschwerdtfeger> calling back in
<janina> SIP is definitely not working for Zakim today.
RS: Do you know what changes there have been to the document
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/
MC: I can't find the changes right now
... The list of changes is not very informative
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/appendices
MC: I will regenerate
<janina> scribe: jongund
<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/appendices#changelog
MC: there are just 2 normative changes since t =he last public working draft
... I will fix that late today
RS: Added none default false to aria checked state
JS: That is interesting working, that is the default
... What this now says, if you look at the checkbox role, implicit value .....
RS: I am looking in the aria spec, the element does not support being checked
JS: But that does not make sense for checkbox
<MichaelC> Diff between ARIA 1.0 and ARIA 1.1<http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FPF%2Faria%2Fcomplete&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FPF%2Faria-1.1%2Fcomplete>
RS: He changed the value, changed the defualt ...
<MichaelC> TOC issue fixed, changes logged at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/appendices#changelog
JS: This goes back to the April FTF discussion
... If you leave it off, the checkbox checked will be false
... Combobox has a required expanded state and that will be false
JG: I don't like it, since validators don't know if the developer
... I will never like
... It is just one more thing to live with
RS: Any objections?
... We will keep the resolution for missing aria-checked
<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/roles#combobox
RS: Are we missing something for combobox?
JS: it is in there
... Implicit value for role....
RS: The implicit value for....
JS: Combobox role, very lat role, implicit value for role
... Added default for aria-expanded to be false
RS: I am OK with that
... Do you expect UAIG to expose..
JS: They all ready do, and we have test cases
RS: Do we put a collapse state out there?
JS: It will expose as expanadable and collapsed
RS: James?
MC: I was rejoining
RS: Who has the pen to not the change?
MC: I have the pen, what do i need to change
... I don't see anything in the diff version
JS: Does that mean it is in ARIA 1.0?
<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#combobox
JS: It is not in the published draft, maybe in the editors
MC: He made ARIA checked ....
... Let me go back to my diffs
<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#combobox
<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/roles#combobox
JS: There is 1.0 and 1.1
MC: That did not get documented, he did on 22 spetember
JS: I will get the source up
RS: We will add the following text....
... Should that have a number next to it
MC: I added this
<richardschwerdtfeger> Add the following text to section 10.3:
JC: What are the differences between 1.0 and 1.1, the biggest difference is aria-describedat
... We have not done a rework of 1.0, so it should not be a difference 1.0 and 1.1
MC: The differences are in the editors source, but not in the public draft
... I will update the make file after testing , later this week
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/states_and_properties#aria-describedat
RS: We went though the default values
... working on aria-describedat now
... SHould we make that a note?
JC: A note or something else, it is something we should definitely add
MC: Maybe we should be referencing .....
JS: We would like to says yes to MC thought
RS: Talk to URI people
MC: the do to ..., looking for URI specification..
<richardschwerdtfeger> In order to provide input- and device-independent access to the associated descriptive content, authors SHOULD use the tabindex attribute to ensure the object is included in the default tab order.
RS: input dash, what is input dash
... Just trying to clarify
JC: that is how you share ... input and device independent ..., grammatical short hand
RS: That will have to change in the future
JC: Why do we have to change that
RS: They will be doing it in SVG to
JC: That will not affect us
RS: In a later version of SVG you may want to change it
JC: if you take out XLINK it doesn't work
... If SVG2 will still need to be compatible with current versions
... We can say this is an SVG 1 document
RS: that's fine
... I am ok with this
MC: I have been working on a refinition of URI that is less HTML centric
<MichaelC> proposed for URI: A Uniform Resource Identifier as defined by <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt">RFC 3986</a> [RFC3986]. It may reference a separate document, or a content fragment identifier in a separate document, or a content fragment identifier within the same document.
MC: I think we should put in value type
... Propse this for the URI, I am not sure where to put processing instructions, but in general should be part of the host language
JC: Is that a to do?
MC: Took that out
<richardschwerdtfeger> Example: Using aria-describedat to provide a detailed description for raster images displayed in SVG
RSL You have an SVG underline, did you want to link to the SVG document
RS: Do we have a glossary
<richardschwerdtfeger> [SVG]
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/references
JJC: that is a good point
RS: We have an SVG in there, reference that and you will be good
... Anything else for the good of the order?
MC: Actually I need to get a working group consensus
JC: I have a question
... Can we add the text role or disclosure role....
MC: I don't think we can by this thursday
JC: Ok this thursday
MC: We can do a second public working draft any time
JC: Will you make the changes?
MC: Yes
JC: I will give you the actions
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/appendices#ack_others
MC: I am planning to do a pass
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/appendices#acknowledgements
<jcraig> ACTION: cooper to finish describedat: add [svg] ref, change todo to note or normative text re: "authors and book publishers should use native markup..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1265 - Finish describedat: add [svg] ref, change todo to note or normative text re: "authors and book publishers should use native markup..." [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-09-30].
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/appendices#ack_others
RS: Can we make it a list
MC: I understand, there are no standard, the primary list and a also contributed list
JS: Why is it numbered, rather than numbered
... It looks like it is alphabetical
RS: Anyone we need to add to this list?
JC: Alex Chin and Alex Surkov ...
RS: Let's see if we missed anyone, what about George
MC: He is not a member, but he is in the second list
<richardschwerdtfeger> George Kerscher
<jcraig> ACTION: Cooper to move Alex Surkov and Scott Gonzalez from Other list to Participants list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1266 - Move alex surkov and scott gonzalez from other list to participants list [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-09-30].
<clown> Scott González (JQuery Foundation),
MC: What is his affiliation?
... Daisy
<jcraig> action-1266?
<trackbot> action-1266 -- Michael Cooper to Move alex surkov and scott gonzalez from other list to participants list -- due 2013-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1266
RS: Is steve faulkner a member of PF
... Just want to make sure we give people credit
MC: Steve is in the list
RS: Is he still an invited expert?
MC: yes
RS: Did John Foliot ever join?
MC: no, but not for lack of effort
... I am convered this to a unordered list
RS: Anything we need to do with the status of this document
MC: I cannot post a version with a status, but I can tell you
<MichaelC> Proposed Status:
<MichaelC> This is a First Public Working Draft of WAI-ARIA 1.1 by the Protocols & Formats Working Group of the Web Accessibility Initiative. The primary feature that is new since WAI-ARIA 1.0 is the aria-describedat property, which aims to meet extended description use cases that are not met by aria-describedby. The specific engineering of this feature may change and is being published now to collect public feedback both on this proposal and suggestions for other proposals
<MichaelC> . Future drafts of ARIA 1.1 will also provide a small number of features to complete the HTML + ARIA accessibility model. It is expected this will complement HTML 5.1. ARIA 1.1 will have a very limited scope. Requirements will be published in the near future. This version of ARIA 1.1 also includes a small set of editorial changes that accumulated in ARIA 1.0 after the publication of the Candidate Recommendation. A history of changes to WAI-ARIA is available.
<MichaelC> For this publicaiton, the Protocols and Formats Working Group primarily seeks feedback on the aria-describedat feature, but feedback on any aspect of the specification is accepted. To comment, send email to public-pfwg-comments@w3.org (comment archive). Comments are requested by 1 November 2013. In-progress updates to the document may be viewed in the publicly visible editors' draft.
MC: There some boiler plate
... the thrid chunk is the start of a new paragraph
<clown> +1 to the proposed status as stated by MichaelC.
JG: can you change "UIUC" to "University of Illinois"
JC: It is a note about what we have to do
MC: it is more than I can do on the call
JC: I added it to the tracker
RS: Any one object ot promte to a public working draft
RESOLUTION: request publication of ARIA 1.1 as a First Public Working Draft
RS: On to the next set of stuff, JC thank you for getting this done
JC: You're welcome. Thank you.
RS: Next thing is the UAIG issues?
... Anything JS?
<clown> action-1198?
<trackbot> action-1198 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update non-default values for required attrs per role. e.g. checkbox and other checkable role default to aria-checked="false" rather than the attr default: undefined. -- due 2013-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1198
JS: There a couple of things
... Action 1198
... Work that JC did to add aria-expanded default value
JC: that should be done
JS: I understand now that the draft has not been published
... I am closing it then
<clown> action-1219?
<trackbot> action-1219 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UAIG: passive RFC requirement: two instances of "The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance" Who is this requirement for? Authors? UA? AT? Be specific. What does "trimmed out" mean? Be specific. -- due 2013-05-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1219
JS: this is one last week,and discussed with Alex
... RS you raised this issue, do we need to look at UAIG?
RS: Did you put some text in?
JS: No, Alex said there was nothing to change
JC: Tis may is for user agents or authors
JS: Everything in UAIG is for the user agent
... I could put in the user agent ....
... Could I just put in a para about all requirements are for user agent, might already be there
... You select shift click...
RS: How does user agent detect...
JS: I don't know how i is done, but FF puts out one event if more than 5 individual events
RS: is there a normative wat ....
... If a select 3 will alex fire?
... the state change event needs to be trimmed out ...
JS: Let me get the section up, 5.8.3
RS: Sorry to be a pain, but I am just saying, that the user agent may fire this ...
... State change events maybe trimmed out for performance
JS: I took all of these .....
RS: I don't view these as state change....
JS: Write a email to Alex ....
RS: I understand what he is doing, I am not sure what IE does
<richardschwerdtfeger> The user agent MAY fire a EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN event. If this happens the state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance.
JS: So you just want to add an if
RS: What is many? It is not consistent
JS: That's why it is a may, if we want a number we can get agreement and make it a must
... What is event object selection?
RS: Selection within is not a stat on the container
JS: Remove ...
JC: Maybe this is the state flux, rather than ...
... It is a binary state
RS: You can have a selected state on an container, how many changes does it take to fire the event, to me is semantics
JS: What is being trimmed out ......
... What is event object ... os being trimmed out too
RS: it is applied to individual events ....
<richardschwerdtfeger> User agents MUST fire the following events when aria-selected changes on a descendant, as follows:
JS: Just ays the UAIG text ....
RS: There a lot of events in here they do not need to be state changes
JS: they say state change event
RS: Something in here and they know when the trigger it
<clown> The other events noted above MAY be trimmed out for performance.
JS: You won't be firing ..... in this column
RS: Other events in this column will be trimmed for performance
JS: That is what I just put in the chat room
... that is the only one that gets fire
<clown> EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN is all that is necessary. The other events noted above MAY be trimmed out for performance.
RS: The left column says that .....
... That makes sense to me
<clown> User agent MAY fire a EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN. The other events noted above MAY be trimmed out for performance.
<richardschwerdtfeger> User agent MAY fire a EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN. If this event is fired the other events noted above MAY be trimmed out for performance.
RS: The Mac column is really easy
... It looks like the only event is object selection change
JS: In the other case you fire many more of them, under certain conditions
RS: on the container?
JS: It does not say that now
<richardschwerdtfeger> The user agent may fire a single object::selection_changed on the container. In this case, the user agent MAY trim out object::selection_changed generated by owned children for performance reasons.
RS: Owned children the correct terminology, owned descendants
JS: It fires on the container
RS: Always on the container?
JS: That's what it looks like
<richardschwerdtfeger> The user agent may fire a single object::selection_changed on the container vs. multiple.
RS: If you want to say for performance reasons
JS: That is the reason
... The last one is about ....
RS: I am not sure it the UIA stuff has been tested
JS: It is not in IE
... The UIA columns are at risk and maybe removed
... I will pass this by Alex
... There are other outstanding issues, but waiting for responses
RS: one thing left
JS: i will try to write some test cases this week
RS: You get a focus and select state change
JS: I gave the new proposed test file and alex said that is the right test
... Let me find the e-mail
... I replied to all, was it on the public PF list?
... What is the public-pfw
<clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Sep/0048.html
JS: it was on fiiday, found it
RS: Did you change it?
JS: Alex was the only one who replied
... I said the test file need to change
RS: Not author driven
JS: Then your not testing an ARIA listbox, you are only testing the select
RS: if one of the items changes the focus then event....
JS: Author must configure ...
... That is one of the changes I made
<clown> Using 85 as the example, assuming it is a test of a multiselectable container (not sure):
<richardschwerdtfeger> :-)
RS: What is the testable statement?
MC: I did not write the testable statement, I just copied
... I am not sure who worte the test case
... This was a single selection use case
... My source
RS: I have another engagement...
<MichaelC> these came from http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA/Tests/Testable_Statements#mapping_events_selection
MC: They were single selection list
<clown> div element with role="listbox" and it is a single selection list, and child div elements with role="option" and tabindex="0", and focus is moved among the options via TAB and SHIFT-TAB keystrokes.
RS: I can put that in here
JS: This is the correct testable statement
RS: We just need to test one
JS: Sure i guess
MC: I think that you need at least 2 focusable, to be able to move among them
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: cooper to finish describedat: add [svg] ref, change todo to note or normative text re: "authors and book publishers should use native markup..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Cooper to move Alex Surkov and Scott Gonzalez from Other list to Participants list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-pf-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2013-09-23 15:34:01 $
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