- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 18:52:58 +0100
- To: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
- Cc: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, PFWG Public Comments <public-pfwg-comments@w3.org>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=Lka=GxB3oar18xRH0kuOPHvOe_oUSxY9O8P16Zx4AfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Sailesh, you wrote: "Situation 3: Visible (i.e. not hidden from view) but not exposed to AT > So aria-hidden can be used only for situation 1?" > that appears to be the only use case not covered by native HTML5/CSS features. You wrote: "2. ARIA is considered as a bridging technology to fill in for gaps or > weaknesses of HTML 4 , JS etc. > Now HTML 5 is being designed, inter alia, to fix these weaknesses, right? > So if one uses HTML 5 (after browsers and AT support it fully as > intended by HTML5), there will be no need to use ARIA with HTML5?" > Not all ARIA features are provided in HTML5 this article i wrote back in 2010 covers the topic. http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/04/html5-and-the-myth-of-wai-aria-redundance/ Also this slide https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cbmudyX4qs5cbXIULKYrsGNUhgV29Iy1T7GqgpKT92I/present#slide=id.g33f45d8_0_54and this https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cbmudyX4qs5cbXIULKYrsGNUhgV29Iy1T7GqgpKT92I/present#slide=id.g33f45d8_0_65 from a recent presentation illustrates the issue that even when native features have been available in HTML for more than a decade, they are not used in some cases and ARIA is required to make the UI intelligible <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cbmudyX4qs5cbXIULKYrsGNUhgV29Iy1T7GqgpKT92I/present#slide=id.gb253674_0_10> regards Stevef On 30 April 2012 17:31, Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote: > On 4/27/12, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote: > > aria-hidden confuses me. > > I think that html5 hidden and CSS display:none should be functionally and > > semantically the same and that both should imply aria-hidden=true > > > Well you are not alone. > This is how I am trying to conceptualize requirements and figure where > aria-hidden fits in. > Situation 1: Hidden from view and not exposed to AT - > display: none works, and can be toggled on/off via JS. > It is widely supported by browsers and AT > Situation 2: Hidden from view, but exposed to AT - > Placing text off-screen works fine. Also akin to the summary > attribute for a data-table > > Situation 3: Visible (i.e. not hidden from view) but not exposed to AT > So aria-hidden can be used only for situation 1? > > Two other questions I have: > 1. Is it because today aria-hidden is not uniformly / adequately > supported by browsers and AT that the ARIA 1.0 Supported States and > Properties section suggests one should declare: > [aria-hidden="true"] { visibility: hidden; } > Ironically, if the fall back mechanism requires CSS, then what's > wrong if this attribute were simply not there? > This view is reinforced with > Leif H Silli's opinion later down the thread: > >I personally know, with myself, that I am not going to use > >aria-hidden="true" on all temporarily hidden elements. > Turning aria-hidden on/off also requires JS. So what is the practical > benefit of this attribute really? > Today it is difficult to find Web content that does not use JS and CSS. > > 2. ARIA is considered as a bridging technology to fill in for gaps or > weaknesses of HTML 4 , JS etc. > Now HTML 5 is being designed, inter alia, to fix these weaknesses, right? > So if one uses HTML 5 (after browsers and AT support it fully as > intended by HTML5), there will be no need to use ARIA with HTML5? > Sailesh Panchang > www.deque.com > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Thursday, 3 May 2012 17:53:50 UTC