W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-personalization-tf@w3.org > December 2021

Re: APA Personalization Task Force Teleconference - 06 December Monday 2021 Agenda

From: Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:36:54 +0000
To: Sharon D Snider <snidersd@us.ibm.com>, "public-personalization-tf@w3.org" <public-personalization-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5FFB3400-B10F-468A-A4B3-6ACE29EDEBC0@tpgi.com>
Hi all,

Please find the minutes at https://www.w3.org/2021/12/06-personalization-minutes.html and below for convenience.

Best regards,


    becky, CharlesL, janina, janina_, JF, Lionel_Wolberger, LisaSeemanKest, LisaSeemanKest_, Matthew_Atkinson, mike_beganyi, Roy, sharon





1.  Follow-up on i18n issue #144 actions - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144

2.  CR draft status
3.  Help Module - COGA to review requirements and provide use cases
4.  Progress on getting implementors

Meeting minutes

Follow-up on i18n issue #144 actions - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144

Lionel_Wolberger: [has been drafting a response and shares it on-screen in zoom and is reading it]

Lionel_Wolberger: [Proposed wording describes i18n's concern; our example (HT CharlesL, Steve Lee and Lionel_Wolberger) and the notion that when only one symbol number is included in the symbol attribute, the order of the rendering will be correct. Also references E.A. Draffan's example included in this thread. ]

<LisaSeemanKest> fantastic

Matthew_Atkinson: Sounds good, but currently the spec _does_ allow for >1 ID per data-symbol attribute; ref example 2: https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/#symbol-example

janina: [ Clarfies E.A. Draffan is an internationally-acknowledged expert on AAC, especially Arabic AAC, out of the University of Southampton, UK ]

LisaSeemanKest: [ Reminds us that E.A.'s expertise specifically relates to Arabic and English AAC. ]

Lionel_Wolberger: ACK the spec does allow for >1 symbol ID per attribute. We need to check with i18n what they think about the latest example and answer.

janina: It will take some time to get a renderer built; we would like to move to CR with this issue acknowledged (and we know we need at least one further CR later).

janina: We're not at the point where we'd be building rendering technology.

JF: Can we ACK the concern and commit to monitring the issue, but move to CR with it unresolved?

janina: That would be a management decision. We have to go through CR twice (at least).

JF: Why're we making the distinction between XHTML and HTML?

janina: Due to the use of EPUB for this example.

JF: Suggest saying XHTML/HTML in your response.

Lionel_Wolberger: Done

Lionel_Wolberger: Suggestions about how to describe that the correct ordering would be clear to people in multiple languages.

janina: Suggest "we believe that"

janina: Suggest we let i18n agree and close the issue.

janina: There's no renderer at this time, and CR is usually when these things are developed, so we will respectfully request to keep this issue open whlist we search for implementations during CR.

CharlesL: Did we find a better word for "argued" at the top?

janina: Suggests "suggested"

Matthew_Atkinson: The response makes it look like the attribute will only have one value (which we may/may not want to do, but we haven't changed the spec, so need to change the wording, or the spec).

Lionel_Wolberger: We can re-word/remove this point for now.

CR draft status

sharon: What's the status on the approval of the CR transition materials?

janina: Submitted, but not sure when we will hear back yet.

janina: It is held up by issue #144.

Help Module - COGA to review requirements and provide use cases

sharon: LisaSeemanKest was asking about use cases from COGA?

LisaSeemanKest: After TPAC, Matthew_Atkinson talked COGA through some Module 1 attributres. We need to arrange a further meeting to start talking through Module 2.

LisaSeemanKest: The question is: what do we want Module 2 to be? Will the help be page-level, or relate to a section of content? What we want from COGA is use cases for Module 2 in terms of the help and support needed.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDPA3R1Y4hVn4Eq9NlRTZ_hg4cpd_8ZtpWoFiVuF_lk/edit

Matthew_Atkinson: (re-phrase for data-symbol still needed)

Lionel_Wolberger: (ACK)

janina: We need to discuss with COGA modules 2 and 3. Find out the priorities. We are looking for a document for the use cases.

LisaSeemanKest: Just put a link in to a document that's a few months old. ("Metadata for Support for COGA")

janina: Good idea to re-visit this as a group as there are new people to engage, and we can determine if the decisions made as part of preparing that document are still current, and engage people to come forward with new ideas.

janina: Hopefully we will be able to do this early next year.

JF: Slight concern about the document title: we need to be clear it's _element-level_ metadata; when most people read the word "metadata" they will think about it being applied to a document as a whole.


janina: +1

LisaSeemanKest: That's slightly blurry, as there could be section-level metadata. Also thinking about how the vocab could support metadata for a section or an element, and remembering that a section is also an element.

JF: Agree, as far as the user's concerned the documet is just more accessible to them. For content creators, we need to make the distinction, as our taxonomies are designed with an attribute-oriented key-value nature.

LisaSeemanKest: Could we specifiy, e.g., that module 1 is at the element level and module 2 is at whichever specific levels?

JF: The modules were split in order to help us get to implementations; I understand all three were intended to expose semantics on elements.

LisaSeemanKest: does this limit us?

janina: I don't see why it should limit us. Agree this is probalby a more technical conversation, we don't need to expose COGA to it.

CharlesL: For EPUB our initial work was all about document-level; what we're doing here is element-level, which we've never had before. The closest thing is MathML WG's "intent" attribute (e.g. Chemistry). That will be at the element/block level.

janina: What's the value-add of trying to make this distinction to COGA? For the TAG, that makes sense. But from the perspective of COGA (user requirements) is that needed?

CharlesL: In practice, element-level can be very helpful (for users and tools).

janina: Agree with that functional definition. If we update the title to reflect that we're talking about element-level, that will address the taxonomical distinction.

sharon: To summarize: we're going to wait until January. Are we suggesting the title change?

janina: +1 on title change

+1 to element-level

JF: +1 ("element-level" is concise and technically accurate)

janina: We'll review in January

Progress on getting implementors

janina: Jeanne Spellman has been helping us reach out to various people. I have a contact in academia (CompSci + AAC).

janina: Think we discovered that our existing extensions no longer render.

<JF> https://www.tiny.cloud

Lionel_Wolberger: UserWay is interested in contributing.

janina: An extension would be good too.

JF: I did some research into TinyMCE. Looks like we could build a plug-in for the editor (ping Matthew_Atkinson) so that content authors could be marking up their code.

+1 that'd be very cool

Matthew_Atkinson: Have given some internal presentations; will continue to do so.

Lionel_Wolberger: Have been talking to potential partner organisations (some in financial services).

Lionel_Wolberger: UserWay's contribution would most likely be an extension. A proxy is also very interesting.

Lionel_Wolberger: Some orgs wouldn't get approval to put extra JS on the page, but they _could_ get approval for extra mark-up to go into the page that an extension on the client side could interpret.

JF: Financial organisations may be concerned about security and privacy, particularly with respect to a proxy service.

JF: janina and I have talked and been enthusiastic about the idea of proxy servers in relation to this sort of work for many years, but just wanted to raise potential concerns.

sharon: Any further items we need to cover?

janina: We didn't get to CR in 2021 but we should be able to hit the ground running in 2022.

janina: One further meeting: next week.

Matthew Tylee Atkinson
Senior Accessibility Engineer
TPG Interactive

A Vispero Company

This message is intended to be confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message from your system and notify us immediately.
Any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken or omitted to be taken by an unintended recipient in reliance on this message is prohibited and may be unlawful.

On 03/12/2021, 21:56, "Sharon D Snider" <snidersd@us.ibm.com> wrote:

    CAUTION: This email originated outside Vispero. Do not click links, open attachments or forward unless you recognize the sender.

    Hi all,

    Here's the agenda for Monday's Personalization TF call. Let me know if there are any other topics that need to be added:

    Chair: Sharon 
    * Follow-up on i18n issue #144 <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144>
    * CR draft Status
    * Module 2.0 Updates and Next Steps
    * Any new progress on implementations?

    The  teleconference information is at: call info - personalization <https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_personalization>

    * 10 am Eastern time
    * 5 pm IS
    * 3 pm UK time

    IRC access

    * An IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channel will be available during the call at: https://irc.w3.org/?channels=personalization

    * The server is  irc.w3.org <http://irc.w3.org>, port number 6665, channel is #personalization
    * You can write any name as a nickname

    Resources and useful links 
    * Wiki <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mKLS-4mbkbhW49Ldrp2nQ-x1W30mhG94fDYzLW1GBcSW3F6jV_W45NqmX43TBFHW3T6jkg3T1McJf4mCW9mV3&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>; - this page has links to all our work
    * mailing list archives <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj26QkH8W3T3qGX1JHM74W43Wg2w2p76z4W3T4FNJ1Lm8YzW3ZWTXk45W2z0W3SYFSb3K8R4LW41PFYp4ttcHyw43Tw4j48K2&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>
    * Personalization Semantics 1.0 <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mKLS-4mbkbhW49Ldrl308ysDW49RkMP3zd6m0W3zhs7S41p0TNW3_R5CW3SYMZQf1Q1_Lt04&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8> (Personalization Semantics 1.0 Editors' Draft <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mbpRl3P28X2W4hCPvp43np2_W49RkMP3zd6m0W3zhs7S41p0TNW3_R5CW3SYMZS0&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>). See also the Personalization Semantics Task Force GitHub repository <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3P28X24hCPvhW43T4Pc1Vp7RHW3K8R4L41PFYpW4ttcHy43Tw4hW3K6K7d4fJd-31V3&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>.
    * our home page
    * Our TPAC 2021 presentation on the Content Module - highly recommended <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW49HSWb3P28X2W3z8ndq3Fbt5SW4mbpRm45NqmXW43TBFH3T6jkgW3T1McG4cJ2rrW41YyJ14cgBqWW3z8gPz1N56cwW4fDXZy1LF6gCW3Y0pB-1N56cyW4fM85J1Lyzb8F3KcbVgS6TW1&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>
    * Web-Based Surveys (WBS) <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mKLS-4mbkbhW49LdqK1N4hm1W1N81nQ3Cfv3hw1N4K5047V2&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>;
    * personalization-semantics source repository issue tracker <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3P28X24hCPvhW43T4Pc1Vp7RHW3K8R4L41PFYpW4ttcHy43Tw4hW3K6K7d4fJd-3F1LyzF7W1vp1&si=8000000004174048&pi=f2506619-43d1-407c-b7c2-2c31eef9acb8>. 
    * Scribing and Participation Tips: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet 
    * Demo: https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation and  https://rawgit.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/demo/conactUs.htm <https://rawgit.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/demo/conactUs.html>

    Sharon Snider 
    IBM Design ► IBM Accessibility Leadership Team
    www.ibm.com/able <https://www.ibm.com/able> and w3.ibm.com/able <https://w3.ibm.com/able>

Received on Monday, 6 December 2021 19:37:12 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Monday, 6 December 2021 19:37:14 UTC