W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-personalization-tf@w3.org > August 2020

Re: Update: joint meeting with CSSWG

From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:29:30 -0700
Message-id: <9CB5DC30-5A8E-4283-A1B0-072DC8691958@apple.com>
Cc: Rossen Atanassov <Rossen.Atanassov@microsoft.com>, Alan Stearns <stearns@adobe.com>, APA Chairs <group-apa-chairs@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, "Gottfried Zimmermann (Lists)" <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com>, James Nurthen <nurthen@adobe.com>, Personalization tf <public-personalization-tf@w3.org>, Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>, Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk>, Theresa O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>, Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net>, Alice Boxhall <aboxhall@google.com>
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Hi Janina, (adding Florian, Tess, Alice, and Léonie.)

Regarding the list of media features proposed:
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Media_features_use_cases_for_personalization


I have some concerns. I want to make sure the Personalization TF has fully considered the privacy impact before raising it as joint discussion between the full working groups.

If there is a Personalization TF meeting between now and TPAC, I'd like to call in to discuss this with the TF before the joint TPAC meeting. 

Janina, you may remember that we proposed many of these media features as part of the now defunct IndieUI User Context <https://w3c.github.io/indie-ui/indie-ui-context.html#Settings> proposal. Despite IndieUI having reasonable security/privacy restrictions <https://w3c.github.io/indie-ui/indie-ui-context.html#privacy-model>, the disability community rejected any feature that might lead to the association of a user having a severe disability. Marco Zehe was the most vocal opponent at the time, though he softened his tone a bit after he read the privacy model portions of that proposal. Later on, Leonie Watson, Jamie Teh, and others led the community in rejecting a portion of the AOM incubation project for a similar, but even more obscure possibility of privacy abuse.

The community’s concerns will be even more concerning if the list of GPII personalization features are added to CSS MQ 5, which has zero privacy protection for the user. I haven’t seen evidence to suggest that adding privacy restrictions on Media Features is a priority for the CSS MQ editors. (Rossen, Alan, and Florian may disagree.) In any case, no privacy restrictions currently exist and IMO those would need to be a prerequisite for the personalization list you’re working on here. 

I had a hand in getting many of the User Preference Media Features into the MQ5 draft <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#mf-user-preferences>, but until now, we’ve only proposed features to CSS MQ that are used by both mainstream users and users with disabilities. As such, it’s a little harder to pinpoint an association to a specific disability, though the privacy of each one has been a major point of discussion and consideration. It’s definitely a gray zone, but the editors and other WG members have deliberated thoroughly on each.

Other APA proposals in the wiki page, such as the CC and AD media features, can be supported effectively without MQ access to the user preference. For example, the <video> element handles selection of caption tracks automatically, and custom players can provide a “captions” button, so in my opinion, the admittedly useful benefit to adding a new Media Feature does not outweigh the risk of broadcasting to the world that the user is most likely Deaf or Hard-of-Hearing.

There are a number of other media features that would be useful to have (including many you have listed here), but Apple has not proposed them due to the potential for abuse re: privacy and fingerprinting risk to the user. 

Let me know if there is is time to meet before TPAC.

Thanks,
James Craig


> Gottfried Zimmermann (Lists) <zimmermann@accesstechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Janina.
> 
> There was a small typo in the URL for the wiki page.  It should be:
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Media_features_use_cases_for_personalization
> .  Feel free to add to its content.
> 
> Best regards,
> Gottfried 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
> 
> Dear Rossen, All:
> 
> We have an additional agendum for our joint meeting at TPAC this year:
> Media Queries
> 
> Specifically, with Dr. Gottfried Zimmerman's assistance, APA has initiated a
> review of the personalization features now in Media Queries 5 here:
> 
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Media_features_use_cases_for_personalizatio
> 
> 
> If memory serves, we agreed this use of Media Queries at TPAC is Lisbon a
> few years ago. It's good to see this moving forward, and I've taken the
> liberty to cc notice of this activity and invite several individuals I
> believe will be interested.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Janina Sajka writes:
>> Hi, Rossen:
>> 
>> +My APA Co-Chair, staff contacts, ARIA chairs, and Leonie (CSS-Speech
>> Editor)
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, APA would indeed like to meet with CSS again. Thanks for asking!
>> We're still working up our agenda, but it would likely include:
>> 
>> CSS-Accessibility TF activity. We have a CSS person who's been 
>> participating in APA and taking up some open issues that have 
>> languished. I expect we should touch base--and highlight her work.
>> 
>> CSS-AAM -- It's been on our todo for some time.
>> 
>> Navigation -- Another unresolved issue that's been open for some time.
>> 
>> Normative specifications for TTS (speech) -- I believe APA's 
>> Pronunciation Task Force and Leonie are clear about this, but there 
>> may be interest/questions about whether we overlap, etc.
>> 
>> Others? Anyone?
>> 
>> PS: APA would like to acknowledge and thank CSS for keeping us 
>> informed of movement in CSS specifications, for adding Accessibility 
>> Impact sections in CSS documents (as needed), and for staying on top 
>> of horizontal review with us. We've noticed and we appreciate it!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> 
>> Rossen Atanassov writes:
>>> Hi Janina,
>>> 
>>> Alan and I are wondering if a11y folks needs joint meeting time with
> csswg as usual around TPAC.
>>> 
>>> Let us know and we'll accommodate.
>>> 
>>> Hope all is well!
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Rossen
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Janina Sajka
>> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
>> 
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
>> 
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>> 
> 


Received on Tuesday, 25 August 2020 02:32:31 UTC

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