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Minutes for August 3, 2020 meeting

From: Becky Gibson <becky@knowbility.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:03:13 -0400
Message-Id: <0D50DE35-0B09-4CEB-9DD5-9D54FC2C0122@knowbility.org>
To: public-personalization-tf <public-personalization-tf@w3.org>
Minutes for Personalization Task Force Teleconference meeting of 03 Aug 2020 can be found at https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html>

Plain text below.

Becky Gibson
Sr. Accessibility Strategist

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa


Personalization Task Force Teleconference

03 Aug 2020

Attendees <>
LisaSeemanKest, janina, JF, Roy, CharlesL, becky, sajkaj

Topics <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#agenda>
, draft ed note from janina see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0002.html <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#item01>
tpac <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#item02>
silver issue <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#item03>
review f explainers, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Jul/0022.html <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#item04>
Summary of Action Items <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
Summary of Resolutions <https://www.w3.org/2020/08/03-personalization-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
<LisaSeemanKest> clear agenda
<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: becky
, draft ed note from janina see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0002.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0002.html>
JS: see updated link - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0003.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0003.html>
... says we rely on data- section in HTMLand that we were asked to take that direction from TAG (need link for that)
... also has a caution to implementors that method will change based on future conversations
... data- can not advance to PR so gauranteed that it will go away or be replaced
<LisaSeemanKest> who is ok with this note?
<sajkaj> +1
<LisaSeemanKest> +1
<CharlesL> +1
<sharon> +1
LS: are people okay with this note
<Roy> +1
bg: do we want to discuss TPAC
JS: also need to look at issue #160
<LisaSeemanKest> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0003.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Aug/0003.html>
JF: not sure how well documented the request from TAG was; think request from TAG came from TPAC from Portugal
group discusses which TPAC - seems like it may have been TPAC in Leon

LS: need to know which groups we need to speak to and about what
JS: this came up unexpectedly this week. believe list is WICG and WHATWG (if any representatives). Agenda is CR and data- replacement
... also have to include the TAG; we need to get out the explainer in the next couple of weeks
LS: should we meet with COGA or WCAG about what module to work on next?
... want to get input on user need
JS: possibly meet with silver
LS: should we meet with anyone for anyone about metadata
CL: regarding metadata we should probably talk to publishing - give them an update since they will have some personalization needs within EPUB
JF: next module in order is help and support - that's where we also have items that have more relevance to publishing - numberfree, easylang, etc
... see some of help and support going more mainstream in publishing; spread word the personalization is more applicable than many people realize
<LisaSeemanKest> - wicg - cr and data dash
<LisaSeemanKest> - wtwg - cr and data dash
<LisaSeemanKest> - incubators
<LisaSeemanKest> - tag
<LisaSeemanKest> - silver?
<LisaSeemanKest> - publishing / dpub on metadata and module 2 and updates, and what are their needs
<CharlesL> Publishing aka DPUB
JS: WICG, TAG, WHATWG - CR and data dash
... metadata and silver - is issue #160 - path
<JF> Issue #160: https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160 <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160>
JS: publishing and silver for metadata and issue #160 - path
silver issue

<JF> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160 <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160>
JS: under discussion is that conformance may no longer be page based; could use p13n style of attributes to define a particular path for specific user needs
... there are multiple ways info is represented - provide a path through for specific user needs
... good for discussion at TPAC; silver asked that we consider this and is probably of interest to publishing as well
JF: adding definition and binding of steps through a task since there may be multiple paths; like a pre-defined breadcrumb path
... not sure where this would live - we don't have anything like that defined but do we want to consider adding to one of our upcoming draft modules - perhaps help and support
<JF> Oops! We actually have it already: https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/tools/index.html#stepindicator-usage-example-explanation <https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/tools/index.html#stepindicator-usage-example-explanation>
LS: module 3 has paths and steps; module 2 has functional req. of alternative content - which could be an alternative path - do we combine them for this
JS: can we updated issue #160 to point to module 3
... I like the term path instead of step indicator - is well understood in architectural accessibility
... architectural relates to physical space
<JF> I note that we'll likely need some kind of binding mechanism for those step/path indications, in instances where there would be multiple paths on a screen/page
LS: user1st has questions about this
JS: why isn't User1st participating if they have interest
LS: have tagged this issue as a feature request; good to have discussions about it at TPAC
JS: include silver and DPUB in meetings
JF: want to go into that meeting with a proposal
<JF> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160 <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160> <><LisaSeemanKest> ACTION: lisa, start wiki page for brainsorm on #160
<trackbot> Error finding 'lisa,'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users>>.
 <><JF> ACTION: LisaSeemanKest to set up wiki page for Issue #160 (https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160) <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160)>
<trackbot> Error finding 'LisaSeemanKest'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users>>.
review f explainers, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Jul/0022.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Jul/0022.html>
<LisaSeemanKest> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/explainer-compare/explainer.html <https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/explainer-compare/explainer.html>
LS: explainer has become more urgent, to get out before TPAC
<LisaSeemanKest> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Jul/0022.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Jul/0022.html>
<JF> +1 to generic
LS: TAG explainer abstract is more generic - prefer that; like having more use cases in the general explainer
... are people comfortable with that
bg: more images and code in the tag explainer
JS: don't think that having code is a problem
... same for images
<JF> HUGE +1 for including code
CL: someone has already applied to #160 (previous agenda item) - there may be multiple paths or divergent paths
JF: really likes the idea of including code - helpful when discussing topics with people who speak different languages - code is often more universal way of communicating
bg: also rearranged why we need personalization section - now has nested lists
<LisaSeemanKest> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/explainer-compare/explainer.html#why_accessibility <https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/explainer-compare/explainer.html#why_accessibility>
LS: think the first level bullets should be numbered and lower level as bullet points makes it simpler
<sajkaj> +1
LS: like the idea of more use cases and broader scope abstract
JF: believe the other attributes in module 1 that are not symbols will be most used
JS: but symbols have higher PR value - we need to take advantage of that
JF: action, destination, purpose are beneficial in early days of AI
JS: we have a slot in the W3C AI workshop - perhaps we should present
LS: COGA has examples
JS: Jutta will cover built in biases of AI/ML at the workshop
... we also have issues with tools - making sure they are accessible
... example: google earth to define the most accessible path from point a to b
LS: John's point is that the attributes can be used for training
... that is important
JS: can contribute to RQTF proposal - suggests Lisa attend the meeting on Wednesday
BG: believes the decision on explainer is: keep updated more generic abstract from TAG explainer; updated bulleted list ot make first level numbered; use the use cases from the TAG explainer
LS: TAG explainer had more clarification on scope and non-goals
JF: need single new bullet point in Explainer that addresses language translation out of scope - no translation of symbols from one natural language to another; english to english symbols - not english to french symbols
... believe that was addressed in TAG explainer and needs to be in generic explainer
LS: any issues with media queries to discuss at TPAC?
 <><LisaSeemanKest> ACTION: backy make updated explainer
<trackbot> Error finding 'backy'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/users>>.
JS: need to coordinate that via APA and will need specific questions
... need to set up a new time for personalization coordination call
Summary of Action Items <>[NEW] ACTION: backy make updated explainer
[NEW] ACTION: lisa, start wiki page for brainsorm on #160
[NEW] ACTION: LisaSeemanKest to set up wiki page for Issue #160 (https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/160)
Summary of Resolutions <>[End of minutes]
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2020/08/03 14:58:49 $
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Present: LisaSeemanKest janina JF Roy CharlesL becky sajkaj
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Found Date: 03 Aug 2020
People with action items: backy lisa lisaseemankest

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