- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:21:34 +0100
- To: Rinke Hoekstra <hoekstra@few.vu.nl>
- CC: OWL 2 <public-owl-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4AF1479E.9020102@w3.org>
Oops, that fell between the (travelling) cracks and Sandro is still on the road:-( I have updated it, hopefully I have picked the right version with the latest changes of Michael. I have also added the triple required by the GRDDL transform. Ivan Rinke Hoekstra wrote: > Hi all, > > An issue that came up on the Pedantic Web mailinglist: the OWL namespace > URI does not (yet) redirect to the new owl.owl file as specified by > Michael. > > Best, > > Rinke > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Rinke Hoekstra <hoekstra@few.vu.nl> >> Date: 4 november 2009 08:58:33 GMT+01:00 >> To: pedantic-web@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [pedantic-web] Re: >> skos:[exactMatch|closeMatch|broader|narrower] vs owl:sameAs >> >> Hi, >> >> On 4 nov 2009, at 03:20, Kingsley Idehen wrote: >>>> This follows from the Direct Model-Theoretic Semantics for OWL [1]. >>> >>> Where does it state that its Symmetric and Transitive? The property >>> has a URI. >> >> As Richard says, it is in the spec. The URI of the property has >> nothing to do with it, other than that it indicates that the sameAs >> property is defined within the OWL namespace... >> >>> My fundamental point: should we be arguing about the meaning of >>> something in prose when it has a URI that should convey its exact >>> semantics? >> >> URI's don't convey semantics, formal specifications do. >> >>> Example: >>> http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http/www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core%01narrowerTransitive . >>> Compare that to: >>> http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http/www.w3.org/2002/07/owl%01sameAs >>> >> >> The URL above does not specify the semantics of owl:sameAs, it is >> 'just' a non-normative RDF schema description of the primitives of >> OWL. It was never meant as a normative reference, and IMHO it is >> wildly confusing. >> >> Nonetheless, the URI should redirect to the new OWL 2 compliant >> owl.owl file as specified by the OWL WG. I will take this up with the >> responsible persons. >> >>> As you can see here is the basic problem: one thing preached (stuff >>> all that matters in structured form behind a URI) but a totally >>> different thing in reality. The debate about "owl:sameAs" would be >>> best served by its URI conveying its semantics unambiguously. >> >> The new owl.owl file does specify owl:sameAs as transitive and >> symmetric. Even so, one should refer to the normative documents when >> digging for the semantics of OWL 2 primitives. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Rinke >> >>>> However, I don't know what that has to do with Evan's question, >>>> which was about applying SKOS properties to things other than >>>> skos:Concepts. >>> Well, if you look at what Evan is seeking, its about alternatives to >>> his use of owl:sameAs, at least that's how I read his comments. >>> >>> >>> Kingsley >>>> >>>> That being said, welcome to the list. Again, please tread lightly. >>>> This is not the right forum to advance particular worldviews on how >>>> to get the most value out of SemWeb technologies, no matter how >>>> right you might be. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Richard >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-semantics/direct.html#3.3 >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3 Nov 2009, at 21:18, Kingsley Idehen wrote: >>>>> Take 2: you are full entitled to make co-reference claims in your >>>>> data space. If you deem identifiers X & Y as referring to the same >>>>> thing (in your world view) then by all means say so. Of course, its >>>>> better if you ensure that you co-referenced entities are of the >>>>> same Type, so a Document != Person etc.. >>>>> >>>>> The semantics of owl:sameAs are quite unambiguous, no where is the >>>>> definition is Transitivity or Symmetry inferred or implied as part >>>>> of the definition of this property. It is exactly as defined in the >>>>> spec, a mechanism for co-reference assertions by the owner of a >>>>> Data Space. >>>>> >>>>> Reasoning over you assertions, like all things in life, is a purely >>>>> subjective act on the part of the entity (human or agent) that >>>>> seeks to reason based on your assertions. Of course, clarity helps. >>>>> >>>>> The label "owl:sameAs" cannot override the actual description of >>>>> the property. Strangely, people remain fixated on the "label" >>>>> rather than the formally defined semantics [1][2] :-( >>>>> >>>>> To conclude, reasoning is an optional and subjective act, >>>>> co-references between entities of the same type (is desired and >>>>> very nice to have), you are totally entitled to your "world view" >>>>> on the Web just as you are in real life, of course quality matters, >>>>> but being "nearly pregnant" is the kind of quality Linked Dta needs >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Links: >>>>> >>>>> 1. >>>>> http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http/www.w3.org/2002/07/owl%01sameAs >>>>> >>>>> 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#sameAs-def >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Kingsley Idehen Weblog: >>>>> http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>>> President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>> President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> --- >> Dr Rinke Hoekstra >> >> AI Department | Leibniz Center for Law >> Faculty of Sciences | Faculty of Law >> Vrije Universiteit | Universiteit van Amsterdam >> De Boelelaan 1081a | Kloveniersburgwal 48 >> 1081 HV Amsterdam | 1012 CX Amsterdam >> +31-(0)20-5987752 | +31-(0)20-5253499 >> hoekstra@few.vu.nl | hoekstra@uva.nl >> >> Homepage: http://www.few.vu.nl/~hoekstra >> >> >> >> > > > --- > Dr Rinke Hoekstra > > AI Department | Leibniz Center for Law > Faculty of Sciences | Faculty of Law > Vrije Universiteit | Universiteit van Amsterdam > De Boelelaan 1081a | Kloveniersburgwal 48 > 1081 HV Amsterdam | 1012 CX Amsterdam > +31-(0)20-5987752 | +31-(0)20-5253499 > hoekstra@few.vu.nl | hoekstra@uva.nl > > Homepage: http://www.few.vu.nl/~hoekstra > > > > > -- Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
Received on Wednesday, 4 November 2009 09:22:00 UTC