- From: Bijan Parsia <bparsia@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
- Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 20:46:54 +0100
- To: Elisa Kendall <ekendall@sandsoft.com>
- Cc: public-owl-dev@w3.org
Thanks Elisa. That's very interested. As you know, my brain seems to resist UML, so these sorts of discussions are helpful indeed. On 4 May 2009, at 20:24, Elisa Kendall wrote: > Hi Bijan, > > Bijan Parsia wrote: >> On 4 May 2009, at 16:41, Elisa Kendall wrote: [snip] > The analysis requires more than this as it turns out, there are a > number of patterns that tend to work at a high level, The idea of higher level patterns is interesting. It seems like you might be able to infer them post translation. > but many organizations have their own profiles, best practices, > preferred patterns, and so forth that are also relevant, in addition > to controlled vocabularies. Sure. But then we're not really talking about *translating* UML are we? It's more like capturing (more of) the model with UML as the center. > UML is really very large, covering considerable ground on the > behavioral side, and there are also an increasing number of > metamodels and other profiles (e.g., SysML, SoaML, BPMN, etc.) that > are relevant to any transformation, particularly if customers apply > one or more of them to the model that they then want to transform to > OWL. We did originally use some NLP capabilities to extract terms, > and may do so again, but even that has to be applied -after- you > understand the patterns in the model. Most other UML-OWL > transformation approaches we've seen support logical models only -- > the class diagrams, but there are several additional diagrams for > which the semantics are quite useful (e.g., use case diagrams, state > diagrams, component diagrams, etc.). [snip] Sure, but again there seem to be different things one could do, e.g., 1) translate all *those* diagrams into their logical counterparts 2) use those other diagrams to generate a *different* translation of the class diagrams than you would otherwise It seems that you do 2. >>> This was early work to tease out some of the issues, including the >>> need for not only a of the language metamodel but an ontology of >>> critical terminology in order to "do the right thing". >> >> I guess I'm still not seeing what's special about the *technique* >> as so described. (Admittedly, the description is pretty sketchy.) I >> could see that the "ontology of critical terminology" might be >> valuable (since, presumably, it'd make or break the translation), >> but that seems to be something for copyright or a trade secret, not >> a matter of patent. I mean, do you think your patent covers *any* >> use of an auxiliary ontology in the translation? > Yes -- it's integral, in fact. I'm confused. So, if I translate a UML diagram into an OWL ontology and align that ontology to DOLCE, I infringe? >>> We still use this approach in our tools, but have refined it >>> significantly since 2000/2001 when we did the original research, >>> as you might expect. >> >> Is there a readable account, e.g., a whitepaper? > Nothing that would provide the level of detail you're interested in > at this point - we haven't had the bandwidth to write one. We're > talking with JPL about doing so later this summer, though, if we > have sufficient time and resources. If we do, we'll certainly post > it or submit it to an appropriate conference. Cool. I'll keep my fingers crossed. >>> The approach covers the combination of the methodology and the >>> transformation to OWL (or other things). It predates ODM >>> substantially, but our current work has been updated to support >>> parts of the standard. >> >> I guess the question is whether one can use ODM without infringing >> on your patent. Or perhaps what one must not do to avoid >> infringement. > There is nothing inherent in using ODM that would infringe on our > patent. Many UML tools support importing UML profiles and allowing > users to apply them to their models, in fact. It's only if one > wants to import/export OWL, from a UML tool, using a metamodel, > profile, and ontologies This is one thing... > in the way that we've done ...and this is the other. What I don't quite understand is what would be a way of doing it that isn't "the way you've done". What you said above seems to make it that *any* use of an auxiliary ontology is infringing. > that there is a possibility of infringement. >>> When we submitted our inputs to ODM (and since, with subsequent >>> updates to the standard), we agreed to license any relevant >>> patents to anyone who was interested at reasonable commercial >>> rates. That would include the one you found. >> >> Ok, so you selected "RAND" instead of "royalty free". If I wrote an >> XSLT that translated UML diagrams into OWL that is aligned with a >> foundational ontology (something along the lines of <http://www.sfu.ca/~dgasevic/projects/UMLtoOWL/ >> >) do I need a license? > No. Ok! But that seems to contradict the above. (This is very reassuring, btw.) >>> We are also planning to contribute some of the work to an emerging >>> Eclipse project, the Eclipse/MDT project, and hope to get the ODM >>> metamodels, profiles, and APIs out in the Galileo release coming >>> out next month, fyi. None of those components require a license >>> to our patent from a usage perspective. >> >> You mean that you've licensed to Eclipse the technology so they can >> distribute it? But if someone released a similar project (e.g., for >> NetBeans) they should come to you for a license? > We're donating it to the Eclipse foundation under the Eclipse > license, and anyone can reuse it. The pieces we are providing to > Eclipse will be royalty free, and are useful without requiring > application of our patent. Excellent. >> Does TopQuandrent have a license? Does their UML conversion infringe? > They have not licensed our patent, but the last time I saw their > tool, they rendered diagrams that were (1) not really UML, although > they do use boxes and arrows, and (2) not editable. Even if they > produce UML (more likely XMI) which can be imported into a UML tool, > they would likely not be infringing, but I'd have to understand what > they are doing better to be sure. Ok! (This makes me more interested in what you're doing :)) >> Do you think the UML-OWL Generator at least *prima facie* >> infringes? If not, why not? How about ICOM? > The UML-OWL Generator -could- be infringing, but there is not enough > information available to be sure. If it does, the patent examiner > will probably find it long before it publishes. The one we worked > with was quite good, found a number of papers that helped him > understand what we were doing, the potential benefits, precise > wording of claims, etc. I don't believe ICOM does (if it hasn't > changed substantially in the last couple of years). The main change in ICOM 2 is that instead of ER diagrams it uses UML(ish?) class diagrams. http://www.inf.unibz.it/~franconi/papers/dl-06.pdf I believe it uses the standard mapping from UML to SHIQ. Cheers, Bijan.
Received on Monday, 4 May 2009 19:47:31 UTC