- From: Bijan Parsia <bparsia@isr.umd.edu>
- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 01:40:22 +0000
- To: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>
- Cc: Kendall Clark <kendall@monkeyfist.com>, public-owl-dev@w3.org
On Nov 15, 2006, at 1:10 AM, Jim Hendler wrote: [snip] > point taken, but one would expect the uptake on the public side to > be continuing while the other goes on - It is unclear to me why > intranet adoption would favor more expressivity, woudl assume it to > be about the same > While I share the belief that intranet adoption is a perfectly fine rationale for adding (or removing) something, I would like to point out that I certainly don't think that the extra expressivity is being driven by "intranet" adoption...at least, I sure didn't see it that way. The person who, afaik, introduced this claim was Danny Ayers. From what I recall, he thinks that the kind of life sciences users such as NCI, Galen, Snomed, etc. that want things like qualified cardinality restrictions are "effectively offline users". Kendall's point was, even if you *grant* this (what I think to be false) premise, it doesn't invalidate their needs or make them less useful for driving forward the semantic web. Of course, I see the life sciences folks as paradigm semantic web users, or could be users. Think of the NCI thesaurus! It's great thing that it's out in public (thanks to you) and in OWL. It's wonderful that the NCI people are migrating from a private, closed system with an idiosyncratic, well, everything, to a version of protege + open source reasoners. Just getting the stuff *on* the web in a reasonably interoperable format is very important. All the features *added* are of this sort --- demanded by users at OWLED (and in other fora!). These are not *all* the users, obviously, but that's a reason why the increment is *very* small (basically, not too much more than DAML+OIL), but potentially high impact. That's also why we included more rational fragments. > - a lot of the DOD projects I've been involved with are using > relatively low expressivity w/large ABOX as well > Sure. And there are large TBoxes from life sciences (for which the EL+ + fragment was developed...but EL++ includes qualified number restrictions...so we sort of have to add them to the whole). Also, consider more expressive datatypes. It's really nice for a number of applications (Web service policies come to mind!) to be able to do comparisons. Last year, in fact, surprisingly, datatypes came ahead of qualified cardinality restrictions. > again, I think the clarity of messaging and the development of a > simpler subset are both necessary to better OWL adoption - i don't > claim sufficiency, but if I have to prioritize (and I do, at least > w/respect to my time and that of my employees) then I would prefer > to see us fill the simplicity gap before chasing the expressivity > end - I think OWL DL/Full is expressive enough to hold most people > for a while... > Of course, none of us, at all, have done a formal market survey, so we're all giving impressions. Impressions are better at determining positives rather than negatives. We all hear, "rational subsets!" but perhaps you didn't hear, "Qualified number restrictions" (and, in EL+ +, they unite). I do think that catering to the life science ontologists is important (even if "offline")...one cool drug discovery facilitated by OWL is a great talking point. One very interesting paper about the trade off is: http://owl-workshop.man.ac.uk/acceptedPosition/submission_19.pdf """ Next, we used DL subsumption reasoning to classify MED. In comparing the classified hierarchy for such defined concepts with the original taxonomy in MED, we found 44 additional subsumptions for laboratory concepts. On manual analysis of newly inferred subsumptions, 26 were correct subsumptions i.e. the concepts actually had a subclass relationship, as confirmed by a domain expert. Interestingly, the false positives revealed systematic modeling errors. The important result here is not that we identified these modeling errors due to the increased expressivity of DL. More important is our finding that the missed subsumptions could have cost the hospital many missing results in various decision support and infection control systems that routinely use MED to screen patients. """ So, I think we all would agree is that expressivity for expressivity sake isn't interesting. Results are what matter. Finally, I would like to point out that the tractable fragments OWL 1.1 document includes fragments that are user driven. EL++ was specifically done to address the very large medical ontologies. DL Lite was motivated by database integration (not integrating reasoners with databases, but integrating distinct database). Some variants of DL Lite cover foaf. Surprisingly many ontologies turn out to be hornSHIQ (as Boris found out). Finally, I venture this explanation: one reason people with large scale problems haven't used more expressivity is that we've not explained well what expressivity they can "safely" use. OWL Lite definitely failed on that front. I would like to improve on that. I get good reactions from people when I explain these alternatives, FWIW. Cheers, Bijan.
Received on Saturday, 18 November 2006 01:40:37 UTC