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Re: Expressing relations between targets?

From: Bridget Almas <balmas@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 16:45:54 -0500
To: Benjamin Young <byoung@bigbluehat.com>, "public-openannotation@w3.org" <public-openannotation@w3.org>
Message-ID: <47a40b34-4de4-c898-2c33-84240044b947@gmail.com>
Hi Benjamin,


Sure. The use case is not exactly the same as Rainer's but I think it 
has some similarities.  Note that this was done with the OA data model 
before it became the W3C model, so it's a little out of date that way as 
well.


But anyway, the following is an annotation which reflects a user 
annotating a bibliographic entry in a bibliographic dictionary. The 
target of the annotation is the selection of the name Rhea in the entry 
for the person entity named Cronus. The body of the annotation is a 
graph which describes the bond between the resource identified by the 
text "Rhea" with a Person entity with the uri for the Cronus person 
entity (http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this").


To be more complete, under this model there would ideally be

(1) an annotation which associated the text entry itself with the person 
entity identifier for Cronus

(2) an annotation which annotates the "Rhea" text with a uri for the 
person entity for Rhea,

(3) an annotation whose target is text selector for "He was married to 
Rhea" and whose body is the graph of the relationship between the Rhea 
entity and the Cronus entity


But we never got that far :-)


Best,

Bridget



{
   "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa-context-20130208.json",
   "@id": "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1",
   "annotatedBy": {
     "@type": "foaf:Group",
     "@id": "http://data.perseus.org/sosol/users/Andrew",
     "foaf:member": [
       {
         "foaf:name": "Jane Doe",
         "@type": "foaf:person"
       }
     ]
   },
   "@type": "oa:Annotation",
   "dcterms:source": 
"https://hypothes.is/api/annotations/18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg",
   "dcterms:title": "http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this 
identifies Rhea as object of snap:IntimateRelationship relationship in 
urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1",
   "annotatedAt": "2015-10-07T15:30:27.211185+00:00",
   "motivatedBy": "oa:identifying",
   "serializedBy": {
     "@id": "https://hypothes.is",
     "@type": "prov:SoftwareAgent"
   },
   "hasTarget": {
     "@id": "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1",
     "@type": "oa:SpecificResource",
     "hasSelector": {
       "@id": 
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1-sel-1",
       "@type": "oa:TextQuoteSelector",
       "exact": "Rhea",
       "prefix": "g the Titans. He was married to ",
       "suffix": ",\n                  by whom he b"
     },
     "hasSource": {
       "@id": "urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1"
     }
   },
   "hasBody": {
     "@context": {
       "snap": "http://onto.snapdrgn.net/snap#",
     },
     "@graph": [
       {
         "@id": 
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#rel-target",
         "@type": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#SpecificResource",
         "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#hasSelector": {
           "@id": 
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1-sel-1",
           "@type": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#TextQuoteSelector",
           "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#exact": "Rhea",
           "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#prefix": "g the Titans. He was 
married to ",
           "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#suffix": ",\n by whom he b"
         },
         "hasSource": {
           "@id": 
"urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1"
         }
       },
       {
         "@id": "http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this",
         "snap:has-bond": [
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#bond-1-1"
         ]
       },
       {
         "@id": 
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#bond-1-1",
         "@type": "snap:IntimateRelationship",
         "snap:bond-with": {
           "@id": 
"urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#rel-target"
         }
       }
     ]
   }
}

On 12/9/19 3:54 PM, Benjamin Young wrote:
> Hey Bridget,
>
> I'd love to see an example of how y'all structured that 
> annotation...legal or not. ;)
>
> Thanks!
> Benjamin
>
> --
>
> http://bigbluehat.com/
>
> http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Bridget Almas <balmas@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2019 1:09 PM
> *To:* public-openannotation@w3.org <public-openannotation@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Expressing relations between targets?
>
> To add to this -- in Perseids (first with Hypothes.is and then with 
> Plokamos) we did something similar, setting the annotation body to a 
> graph that encoded the relationship using the SNAP ontology.  It 
> wasn't perfect, particularly because we embedded the graph directly in 
> the annotation body rather than referencing it via URI, which wasn't 
> really legal, but it did allow us to express the nature of the 
> relationship.  Happy to provide more details if you're interested.
>
>
> Bridget
>
>
> On 12/9/19 12:14 PM, Benjamin Young wrote:
>> Thanks for writing, Simon!
>>
>> At this point, I'd suggest being careful not to reinvent RDF inside 
>> Web Annotation. Something like "A is the father of B" or similar is 
>> already better expressed via much simpler RDF (assuming you have 
>> identifiers for the things. Mixing that into the annotation model 
>> starts to create all kinds of painful indirection. 😕
>>
>> That said, I'm noting a lack of "directionality" when targeting 
>> resources in Web Annotation. I'm not (yet) certain it's Web 
>> Annotation's job to record that, just noting that it currently isn't 
>> possible. Appendix D has the things that get close: 
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-model/#sets-of-bodies-and-targets 
>> But even so, I don't think there's a way to turn "Orestes killed 
>> Aegisthus" into an annotation per se.
>>
>> It might be best to narrow in on the "textual editing part" and 
>> explore potential needs in that context. Otherwise, RDF proper would 
>> likely do a much cleaner job of expressing the things you note below.
>>
>> Happy to discuss further!
>> Benjamin
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://bigbluehat.com/
>>
>> http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Simon Rainer <Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at> 
>> <mailto:Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2019 8:28 AM
>> *To:* James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com> <mailto:jgsmith@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* public-openannotation@w3.org 
>> <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org> <public-openannotation@w3.org> 
>> <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* AW: Expressing relations between targets?
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>>
>> I agree - we'd ideally want to identify the people via URIs. And then 
>> the assertion "is father of" would be a statement between those two 
>> entities.
>>
>>
>> However, within the annotation environment, the scenario is that this 
>> would be like a note, made a human editor, on the text. So I'm 
>> inclined to say that, we are indeed talking about a statement about 
>> two strings of text - at least at this point in the workflow.
>>
>>
>> I guess the example is also not ideal here. The annotations might 
>> just as well be highlighting two different text paragraphs, and the 
>> annotator would drag an arrow between them saying "the author is 
>> repeating him/herself here", or whatever. I.e. irrespective of what 
>> ever "real world meaning" might be behind the arrow eventually, I'm 
>> primarily interested in using WebAnno/Open Annotation to model the 
>> textual editing part.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rainer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Von:* James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com> <mailto:jgsmith@gmail.com>
>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 9. Dezember 2019 14:18
>> *An:* Simon Rainer
>> *Cc:* public-openannotation@w3.org <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org>
>> *Betreff:* Re: Expressing relations between targets?
>> How do we know who the text "Aegisthus" refers to? It's a name, so 
>> it's identifying something, but who/what is the identity we associate 
>> with the string "Aegisthus"?
>>
>> While we might all agree on whom we link the text to in our minds, it 
>> might be helpful to add some context for the computer. I'd add 
>> another property on the body that points to a dbpedia entry or other 
>> unique URI that is useful in asserting the identity of the person 
>> referenced in the text as "Aegisthus". Let's say it's 
>> <dbpedia:Aegisthus>. The same could be done for "Orestes" with a link 
>> (for the purposes of discussion) of <dbpedia:Orestes>.
>>
>> Once this is done, then it's a matter of asserting the 
>> <dbpedia:Aegisthus> is related to <dbpedia:Orestes>. It's not about 
>> the string "Aegisthus" having a familial relationship with the string 
>> "Orestes", or that one annotation has a familial relationship with 
>> another annotation, but about the person <dbpedia:Aegisthus> having 
>> such a relationship with the person <dbpedia:Orestes>. They just 
>> happen to be referenced as "Aegisthus" and "Orestes" in this 
>> particular text.
>>
>> If we did make the relationship about the strings in the text, then 
>> that relationship wouldn't be true for any other instances of the 
>> strings "Aegisthus" and "Orestes" in this or any other text. It would 
>> be about the two instances already highlighted.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 8:03 AM Simon Rainer <Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at 
>> <mailto:Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at>> wrote:
>>
>>     Dear list,
>>
>>
>>     I have a question regarding the possible use of the WebAnno model
>>     for expressing a relationship between two targets.
>>
>>
>>     My scenario is the following:
>>
>>
>>     *) I have two text annotations that identify people. Each
>>     annotation has a single target (the person name in
>>     a TextQuoteSelector, and character offset in a
>>     TextPositionSelector); and a single body (with purpose
>>     "identifying").
>>
>>     *) I now want to create a third annotation that expresses a
>>     relation between person A and B. (E.g. "A is the father of B" or
>>     similar.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     My approach would be to model this third annotation like the
>>     sample below. I.e. with:
>>
>>
>>     *) two targets, each holding the ID of one person annotation
>>
>>     *) a body with the relation tag ("is the father of")
>>
>>     *) a motivation of "linking"
>>
>>
>>     According to the definition for "linking", that's not correct
>>     though. "Linking" is supposed to express a link between body and
>>     all targets, rather than a link between the targets. In addition,
>>     there's also no way to express directionality.
>>
>>
>>     Does anyone have recommendations on how to tackle such a use case
>>     with WebAnno? I realize that (some of) this may actually be out
>>     of scope for the spec as such. In this case, I'd appreciate
>>     any thoughts, opinions, and possible recommendations on a custom
>>     extension pattern, if needed.
>>
>>
>>     Cheers & thanks in advance,
>>
>>     Rainer
>>
>>
>>     ---
>>
>>
>>     {
>>       "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld",
>>       "id": "#9ba844a7-e8ec-4127-ad12-1f7f16a240c6",
>>     "type": "Annotation",
>>     "motivation": "linking",
>>     "body": [{
>>     "type": "TextualBody",
>>     "value": "isRelatedTo"
>>       }],
>>       "target": [{
>>         "id": "#ce0ed291-766b-4763-8e91-90ce1d04e706"
>>       }, {
>>         "id": "#447d4bea-08dc-4bd0-ae51-31f5ed7a95a0"
>>       }]
>>     }
>>
>>
>>
>>
Received on Monday, 9 December 2019 21:46:01 UTC

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