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Re: FYI: Public Draft of the W3C Annotation Working Group Charter

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 10:52:02 +0100
Cc: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>, W3C Public Annotation List <public-annotation@w3.org>
Message-Id: <B8F2E608-8001-4270-B55A-ECE6AD4C39E0@w3.org>
To: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
(In the meantime a new day for me:-)

I think I already expressed my belief (I am not sure it was on this list) that the selector model of the current OA is not only a very important aspect of the OA work but, in fact, its importance may go beyond the annotation work itself. What this tells me is that the WG, if created, may decide to spawn the selector work into a separate Rec track document that may be used by itself for other purposes, too. (I must emphasize that this is my personal opinon!). Adding a data-related selector (or at least a suitable superclass thereof) seems to be an obvious point of extension.

Coming back to the charter: my original comment was more related to APIs, for example. I believe data related API-s are very different than, say, defining a Javascript API to access annotations in a Web page or a digital book. This is where I think a restriction in the charter is a practical step that may well be necessary.

Thanks

Ivan


On 05 Feb 2014, at 07:18 , Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi, Paolo, Bob–
> 
> It would be extremely foolish for us to exclude the ability for a selector to link to data. So, that's not going to happen.
> 
> Whether we work on defining that selection mechanism immediately in a working group is a different topic. I personally don't know how difficult that would be; I suspect it would be a relative hard problem with a diverse range of selectors needed for different data sources. But it does sound like an interesting and valuable use case. As Ivan said, it might be better to have a general extensibility to the data and selector model, and to define a data citation selector in a different phase or a different group (unless it turns out to be much easier to solve than I suspect).
> 
> Regards-
> -Doug
> 
> On 2/4/14 9:03 PM, Paolo Ciccarese wrote:
>> To add to what Bob said….
>> 
>> Besides the DataPositionSelector we don't have any that is currently in
>> the specs:
>> http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/specific.html#DataPositionSelector
>> 
>> However, there are local implementations. For instance, I currently
>> annotate the latest 10 entries of a particular kind in the triple store
>> - same approach could be used with a SQL Database.
>> 
>> In that case the Selector can encode what is necessary to identify the
>> entries. So, leveraging selectors, I can say:
>> 
>> <sptarget1> a oa:SpecificResource ;
>>     oa:hasSource <host::database> ;
>>     oa:hasSelector <selector1> .
>> 
>> <selector1> a xx:SparqlQuerySelector ;
>>     xx:sparqlQuery "" .
>> 
>> True, the above target is dynamic but there are cases in which the
>> tagged has static nature. Example: annotate all the records in a
>> database created before 2000 and containing the symbol CompoundX with
>> the note "The compound name is now called CompoundY".
>> 
>> I do agree that these use cases might not be as widespread as the
>> annotation of classic web resources. And I am not sure on how much
>> should be said in the charter. In general, I would just make sure the
>> evolution of the model would not preclude mechanisms like the above. I
>> feel it is very unlikely unless the current model is completely
>> revolutionized...
>> 
>> Again, robust anchoring is somehow orthogonal to this.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Paolo
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com
>> <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>    We have some detailed examples in the supplementary material of our
>>    PLOSone paper [1].  As Paolo says, OA Selector methods generally work
>>    for queries. You just need domain vocabulary for the query variables.
>>    With just a little dance the pattern can even be given meaning
>>    signalling annotations that make an assertion intended to hold for an
>>    arbitrary database that can make sense of the query.
>>    --Bob
>> 
>>    [1]  Semantic Annotation of Mutable Data
>>    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076093
>> 
>>    On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org
>>    <mailto:schepers@w3.org>> wrote:
>>     > Hi, Paolo-
>>     >
>>     > Not to drill too deep into details, but what would such a
>>    selector look
>>     > like?
>>     >
>>     > Regards-
>>     > -Doug
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > On 2/4/14 7:38 PM, Paolo Ciccarese wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> Hi Doug, Bob, all,
>>     >> in the current Open Annotation model - and that was true for Open
>>     >> Annotation Collaboration and Annotation Ontology models - the data
>>     >> annotation is supported and an important aspect of the overall
>>    idea. For
>>     >> instance we can have a selector that is able to identify a
>>    portion of a
>>     >> dataset through an appropriate mechanisms (even a SQL query if
>>    necessary).
>>     >>
>>     >> Doug, data selectors don't change the need for robust anchoring
>>    within
>>     >> the web documents realm, it is simply a different aspect. The
>>    concern is
>>     >> to have a new model that will somehow preclude/limit that. That
>>    would be
>>     >> a problem for instance for the scientific community where data
>>    curation
>>     >> can be addressed with annotation.
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Best,
>>     >> Paolo
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org
>>    <mailto:schepers@w3.org>
>>     >> <mailto:schepers@w3.org <mailto:schepers@w3.org>>> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>     Hi, Bob-
>>     >>
>>     >>     The Force11 Data Citation Principles are interesting, and I
>>     >>     certainly support them; they seem very much in line with TimBL's
>>     >>     thinking about Linked Open Data and "five-star data".
>>     >>
>>     >>     While I agree with Ivan that we need to keep a focused
>>    scope, I'm
>>     >>     curious what specifically you would like to see in the charter?
>>     >>
>>     >>     Much of the Force11 Data Citation Principles seem to be about
>>     >>     publishing guidelines or citation guidelines, not
>>    annotations per
>>     >>     se. Are you suggesting that the robust anchoring try to
>>    address data
>>     >>     citation as well as document anchoring? Or is there some
>>    other way
>>     >>     in which "data" could be more explicitly in scope?
>>     >>
>>     >>     Regards-
>>     >>     -Doug
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>     On 2/4/14 11:53 AM, Ivan Herman wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>         On 04 Feb 2014, at 16:28 , Bob Morris
>>    <morris.bob@gmail.com <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>
>>     >>         <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com
>>    <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>             This is good news and I add my thanks.
>>     >>
>>     >>             It will be no surprise to OA followers that only
>>    problem I
>>     >> have
>>     >>             with the early draft is that it does not
>>    unambiguously put
>>     >> data
>>     >>             annotation in the scope.  This is all the more
>>    disappointing
>>     >>             given
>>     >>             the quite interesting efforts that Tim and Ivan have
>>    pointed
>>     >> out
>>     >>             in public-openannotation@w3.org
>>    <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org>
>>     >>             <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org
>>    <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org>> about data citation
>>     >>             practices,
>>     >>             e.g. http://force11.org/__datacitation
>>     >>             <http://force11.org/datacitation>, in the context of
>>     >> increasing
>>     >>
>>     >>             pressure from funding agencies to provide the data
>>    behind the
>>     >>             conclusions of scientific publications.
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>         Bob,
>>     >>
>>     >>         obviously:-) I am aware of the data publishing issues. And I
>>     >>         think it
>>     >>         is correct to say that part of the work that is planned
>>    in the
>>     >> group
>>     >>         (namely the finalization of the data model) would
>>    certainly be
>>     >>         usable
>>     >>         for data annotation as well.
>>     >>
>>     >>         However... the work on API-s, RESTful or not, would, I
>>    believe, be
>>     >>         very different when we talk about annotation on data and
>>    about
>>     >>         annotation on web pages or digital books. And the sad
>>    reality is
>>     >>         that
>>     >>         we have to make a choice in the scope because we cannot
>>    cover
>>     >>         everything in one place. Hence the current focus on the
>>     >>         'traditional'
>>     >>         Web issues.
>>     >>
>>     >>         That being said: we are certainly open to either enlarge
>>    the scope
>>     >>         or, possibly at a later point, spawn a different group
>>    with a
>>     >>         different scope that would look at the annotation of data
>>     >>         publishing.
>>     >>         It is a matter of 'submissions' in the general sense, a
>>    maturity
>>     >> of
>>     >>         the technology in terms of a possible standardization,
>>    communities
>>     >>         that are ready to step up... Let us see where the public
>>     >> discussion
>>     >>         goes!
>>     >>
>>     >>         Thanks!
>>     >>
>>     >>         Ivan
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>             On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Paolo Ciccarese
>>     >>             <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com
>>    <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>
>>     >>             <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com
>>    <mailto:paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >>                 Dear Community Group Members, As anticipated W3C
>>    may start
>>     >> a
>>     >>                 Working Group to standardize the major building
>>    blocks for
>>     >>                 annotations.
>>     >>
>>     >>                 Thanks to the work of Ivan Herman and Doug
>>    Schepers, an
>>     >>                 'advance
>>     >>                 notice' has been issued to the W3C members[1]
>>    and a very
>>     >>                 early
>>     >>                 draft for the Working Group Charter [2] has been
>>    made
>>     >>                 available
>>     >>                 publicly.
>>     >>
>>     >>                 Any comments are welcome to finalize the draft.
>>    The best
>>     >>                 is to
>>     >>                 send them to the public-annotation@w3.org
>>    <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org>
>>     >>                 <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org
>>    <mailto:public-annotation@w3.org>> mailing list whose role
>>     >>
>>     >>                 is to collect all the comments coming from the
>>    community
>>     >> at
>>     >>                 large.
>>     >>
>>     >>                 Best, Paolo & Rob
>>     >>
>>     >>                 [1]
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/public-annotation/__2014Feb/0000.html
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>    <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2014Feb/0000.html>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>     [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/Ann-__charter.html
>>     >>     <http://www.w3.org/2014/01/Ann-charter.html>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>                 -- Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>    http://www.paolociccarese.__info/
>>     >>
>>     >>                 <http://www.paolociccarese.info/> Biomedical
>>     >>                 Informatics Research & Development Instructor of
>>     >>                 Neurology at
>>     >>                 Harvard Medical School Assistant in Neuroscience
>>    at Mass
>>     >>                 General
>>     >>                 Hospital Member of the MGH Biomedical
>>    Informatics Core
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>             -- Robert A. Morris
>>     >>
>>     >>             Emeritus Professor  of Computer Science UMASS-Boston 100
>>     >>             Morrissey
>>     >>             Blvd Boston, MA 02125-3390
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>             Filtered Push Project Harvard University Herbaria
>>    Harvard
>>     >>             University
>>     >>
>>     >>             email: morris.bob@gmail.com
>>    <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com> <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com
>>    <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>>
>>     >>
>>     >>             web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/ web:
>>     >> http://wiki.filteredpush.org http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram ===
>>     >> The
>>     >>             content of this communication is made entirely on my own
>>     >>             behalf and
>>     >>             in no way should be deemed to express official
>>    positions of
>>     >> The
>>     >>             University of Massachusetts at Boston or Harvard
>>    University.
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>         ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home:
>>     >> http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153
>>    <tel:%2B31-641044153>
>>     >>         <tel:%2B31-641044153> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
>>     >>         FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/__foaf
>>     >>
>>     >>         <http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> --
>>     >> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>     >> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>>     >> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>>     >> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>     >> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>>     >> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
>>     >> +1-857-366-1524 <tel:%2B1-857-366-1524> (mobile) +1-617-768-8744
>>    <tel:%2B1-617-768-8744> (office)
>>     >>
>>     >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
>>     >> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered
>>     >> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or
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>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    --
>>    Robert A. Morris
>> 
>>    Emeritus Professor  of Computer Science
>>    UMASS-Boston
>>    100 Morrissey Blvd
>>    Boston, MA 02125-3390
>> 
>> 
>>    Filtered Push Project
>>    Harvard University Herbaria
>>    Harvard University
>> 
>>    email: morris.bob@gmail.com <mailto:morris.bob@gmail.com>
>>    web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/
>>    web: http://wiki.filteredpush.org
>>    http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram
>>    ===
>>    The content of this communication is made entirely on my
>>    own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express
>>    official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or
>>    Harvard University.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
>> +1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)
>> 
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
>> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered
>> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed to
>> any other party without the permission of the sender.
>> If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
>> immediately.
> 
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
Digital Publishing Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
GPG: 0x343F1A3D
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf






Received on Wednesday, 5 February 2014 09:52:34 UTC

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