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Re: Doppelgänger fallacy; Was Re: OA and provenance

From: Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:37:39 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPRnXtnJTEuuFun-udLLUSFsKSgMm-gdgQ2zhO_DW87sfwngGg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>
Cc: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>, Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>
That term might be more memorable than HTTP-Range-14 - although it
seems to pick a side using 'fallacy'


On 16 August 2013 15:15, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com> wrote:
> Antoine-
> I take no position on whether Paolo is indeed introducing a confusion
> between an annotation and the digital representation of the
> annotation. But my experience has been that such confusion is very
> common and not just about annotations, but, as you  point out, about
> any kind of resource. The most typical case I find among natural
> scientists is eagerness to assign the same identifier to a physical
> object as to a digital description of it.  Paolo himself tends to warn
> about this in talks about annotation,  using the Eiffel Tower as an
> example.  It's a natural thing for humans to do, because in human
> dialogue, the context  often makes clear which is under discussion.
> But when the context doesn't, confusion ensues.  One venue where
> confusion is \likely/ is when informaticians are discussing a case in
> which both require treatment.
> I think the phenomenon is so pervasive that we need a short, memorable
> name for it, especially one I can use to bludgeon my natural science
> colleagues who think it's \helpful/ to have a single identifier for a
> physical thing and its digital description.
> I propose to call what you remark upon  a "doppelgänger fallacy."
> I especially relish the prospect of hopping up in a talk and saying
> "Paolo! You, of all people, have introduced a doppelgänger fallacy on
> slide 23!"  :-)
> Bob Morris
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>> Hi Paolo,
>> I agree that the decisions on scenario 1-2-3 are entirely up to you. And the
>> more fundamental decisions on having one annotation or one annotation and
>> something else (another annotation or a PROV entity) also. But as long as
>> your short-cuts have a sound grounding! If others can't understand clearly
>> what you've done then it's a big problem ;-)
>> As for the mappings (pav:authoredBy is a sub-property of oa:annotatedBy,
>> pav:curatedBy a sub-property of oa:annotatedBy) I agree with you. I used
>> "sub-property" but I meant it in a "local" context. I.e for all triples in
>> your annotation case, you should generate another triple of the more general
>> property. I think what you suggest is ok.
>> As for pav:createdBy, sentence like:
>> "In pav:createdBy is used for the digital artifact only. While
>> pav:authoredBy, pav:curatedBy and so on...  are for the content of the
>> artifact. So you can have both pav:createdBy (person that created the
>> artifact) and pav:curatedBy (person that collected and curated its
>> content)."
>> and:
>> "pav:createdBy is more specific than dct:creator as it refers only to the
>> digital artifact."
>> are really confusing.
>> In RDF is one resource that is the object of the statements, and it denotes
>> ONE entity. You can't have two properties applied to one resource, and
>> sometimes the resource should be interpreted as the annotation, and some
>> other times as the digital representation of the annotation.
>> If you want to use createdBy as a shortcut, and still subject it to the
>> oa:Annotation resource, then your definition should rather be :
>> "pav:createdBy is used for the creator of digital artifact that represents
>> the resource". And then the name should be changed because it doesn't
>> reflect the short-cut at all. It should be something like
>> pav:hasDigitalRepresentationCreatedBy...
>> If you want to use createdBy on a resource that is a digital representation
>> of the oa:Annotation (so not the oa:Annotation itself) then the wording is
>> better. But in this case, well, you can't subject it to the resource you
>> wanted to subject it on. And there's no point in minting a property that is
>> not dc:creator... (or course dc:creator can be applied to any resource, be
>> it a conceptual one of a representation).
>> Cheers,
>> Antoine
>>> Hi Antoine,
>>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl
>>> <mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl>> wrote:
>>>     Hi,
>>>     Wow, the return of a serious discussion, in an even more complex form,
>>> awesome ;-)
>>>     First a remark on Stian's comment:
>>>     "and the conclusion seemed to have been that it is simpler to merge
>>> the conceptual annotation with the formalized annotation as a
>>>     datastructure."
>>>     Yes, and this was about the data structure only. The annotation is
>>> really of conceptual nature. We just allow for attributes (e.g.
>>> oa:serializedBy) that shortcut some provenance info. A full, correct
>>> representation has the serialization appear as a fully-fledged (PROV)
>>> entity, distinct from the oa:Annotation, as pictured at
>>> http://www.openannotation.org/__spec/core/appendices.html#__ProvMapping
>>> <http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/appendices.html#ProvMapping>
>>>     Based on this indeed pav:authoredBy is a sub-property of
>>> oa:annotatedBy (or an equivalent, in the specific context).
>>> I would say it is more an equivalent as pav:authoredBy is not only for
>>> annotations.
>>>     The question next is how to handle the extra level of "digital
>>> annotation" - the guy who captures the annotation in the system (I'll just
>>> focus on the "creator" aspect, the discussion is long enough, let's ignore
>>> "with" "at" and "on").
>>>     I like Jacco's and Stian's suggestions of double annotations (whether
>>> one is the target or the body or the other...). It is complex, but it
>>> represents the situation quite well. In this case both are annotators.
>>> This would complicate the implementation though. In some sense, I see the
>>> "extra level of "digital annotation"" more as extra level of provenance so I
>>> can stay 'compact'.
>>> We had a similar issue with Claims representation. You have the conceptual
>>> Claim and then multiple embodiment of that claim in text. It is a tough
>>> problem.
>>> But sure, you could think of both of them as annotators. Not sure Darwin
>>> would like that but I cannot talk for him :)
>>>     An alternative is to create one annotation (oa:annotatedBy Darwin) and
>>> another non-annotation resource. Something similar to the PROV entity we
>>> have for the serialization. It would represent the act of capturing a
>>> annotation in the system, where the student plays the creator role.
>>>     In any case, that's two resources.
>>>     But as for the serialization case, you may want to have only one
>>> resource in a 'core' solution. Two options here:
>>>     1. Consider that the oa:Annotation is the result of the intellectual
>>> work of both Darwin and the student. In this case both are the object of an
>>> oa:annotatedBy. I think this choice is borderline, but in a specific
>>> application context, where students spend hard work deciphering/interpreting
>>> an annotation, why not?
>>>     If you want to use pav:curatedBy still, then you would need to have it
>>> a sub-property of oa:annotatedBy
>>> We cannot really do that as pav:curatedBy is also used for objects that
>>> are not annotations.
>>> What I could think of doing now is:
>>> <ann1>
>>>        oa:annotatedBy <Darwin>
>>>        oa:annotatedBy <Student>
>>>        pav:authoredBy <Darwin>
>>>        pav:curatedBy <Student>
>>> It is redundant but that way the semantics is clear for both OA and PAV
>>> and it allows OA clients to get to the provenance.
>>> What do you think of it?
>>>     2. Consider that the role of the student is minor. In this case, I
>>> think a property with a name like pav:curatedBy still makes sense. But it
>>> would be a specialization of something more general, maybe dc:contributor.
>>> And its semantic would in fact be the one of "short-cut" for the more
>>> complex situation where a second annotation (or a PROV entity) exist to
>>> represent the situation at the right granularity.
>>> In PAV most of the properties are short-cuts. The idea is to have a single
>>> object rather than a series of them. It does not solve everything, but it
>>> works for many use cases.
>>> At the moment pav:curatedBy is sub-property of prov:wasAttributedTo and
>>> also dct:contributor. So I think we are on the same page.
>>>     3. Consider that the role of Darwin is minor (very borderline maybe).
>>> In this case the student is the oa:annotatedBy, and Darwin a mere
>>> dc:contributor.
>>> Frankly I feel uncomfortable with this approach. But it is true, it
>>> depends on how you intend the annotation.
>>>     In any case I don't think you can do anything practical with a
>>> solution that would only have one resource of type oa:Annotation and a
>>> short-cut property with a name like pav:createdBy. The name and intuitive
>>> semantics are really too close to dc:creator and oa:annotatedBy (as the
>>> creator of the Annotation)! In fact pav:curatedBy is much better, which is
>>> why I think it could be defined as a short-cut in option 2 above.
>>> In pav:createdBy is used for the digital artifact only. While
>>> pav:authoredBy, pav:curatedBy and so on...  are for the content of the
>>> artifact.
>>> So you can have both pav:createdBy (person that created the artifact) and
>>> pav:curatedBy (person that collected and curated its content).
>>>     Note that PAV mentions dct:createdBy as the super-property of
>>> pav:createdBy, which to my knowledge does not exist. In fact I really
>>> believe PAV would benefit from removing pav:createdBy. If you need it,
>>> re-introduce it with a better name, and clearer semantics!
>>> That is just a typo in the description it is dct:creator. pav:createdBy is
>>> more specific than dct:creator as it refers only to the digital artifact.
>>> Best,
>>> Paolo

Stian Soiland-Reyes, myGrid team
School of Computer Science
The University of Manchester
http://soiland-reyes.com/stian/work/ http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
Received on Friday, 16 August 2013 15:38:26 UTC

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