- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 09:24:59 +0200
- To: public-ontolex@w3.org
On 2013-09-17 07:59, Nicoletta Calzolari wrote: > Il 17/9/13 7:46 , Philipp Cimiano ha scritto: > >> Dear all, >> >> regarding the name of the model, I agree with Francis Bond here. > > even if I'm not active in the group I still read most of the mails, > and just want to say that I agree with you on this and your arguments > below +1. Felix > > Nicoletta > >> As it has turned out, the ontolex model we are currently developing >> really subsumes the lemon model in the sense of extending it with a >> number of properties, at least what the core parts of both models >> are concerned. >> >> So while the ontolex model is definitely new and based on a broader >> consensus, it is still very similar to the original lemon model that >> many people on this group have offered as input to the work of this >> community group. >> >> It turns out that much more people have adopted lemon than >> originally expected, partly because some people have been quite >> successful in lobbying, but that is exactly what is expected to >> happen in pre-standardization activities. >> >> So I would say that this group has a chance: the chance of building >> on an existing community that will set an important baseline that we >> can jump upon to make sure that our model receives wide adoption. >> >> By coming up with a totally different name, we might loose this >> community of early adopters (we might not, I concede, but there is a >> risk clearly). >> >> I think that lemon2 (proposed by me) and lemon-w3c (proposed by >> Aldo) are good compromises in this direction as they clearly >> indicate that we are talking here about an extended version of the >> lemon model, which, as it turns out, is what we have yielded by now. >> However, assuming that one day our model will become a W3C standard, >> the w3c suffix will be redudant as we might anyway have w3c.org in >> the namespace. >> >> I also like the proposal of John very much of calling the core we >> have been developing lemon-ontolex and then the other modules: >> lemon-syntax, lemon-morph, lemon-lexnet, lemon-lime etc. I find this >> very chique an a good compromise actually. This is in line with our >> clear vote for fostering a modular approach. >> >> Having said this, I would like to challenge Guido, Alessandro and >> Gil to argue against this proposal ;-) I challenge you also to make >> proposals how me make sure that we do not loose the early adopters >> that could potentially be confused by a new standard with a new >> name. >> >> Just my two cents on the discussion so far. >> >> Philipp. >> >> Am 17.09.13 03:47, schrieb Francis Bond: >> >> I would also vote for keeping the name the same. I find having >> multiple names for similar things much more confusing than calling >> incremental improvements with the same name :-). >> >> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 6:21 PM, John McCrae <johnmccrae@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I think Gil puts the issue quite well, renaming would be a "fresh >> start". I just don't think we need a "fresh start" for several >> reasons... firstly that the "lemon" brand is proving quite >> successful, entirely due to the hard work of many members of this >> group. >> >> Secondly, the model is not fundamentally new but builds on the >> existing lemon core model, see attached diagram to illustrate my >> point. I don't think there should be need for confusion between the >> models as they are fundamentally iterations in the same direction. >> >> Finally, looking to the future development of the model, I first >> note we are a long way behind our original schedule. As it seems >> that we have ended up more or less building on the work of Lemon, I >> suggest we take this as a template for the module work. i.e., take >> as a basis the existing modules in Lemon (where extant) and then >> discuss how to improve them. >> >> Taking this in mind perhaps the best proposal would be that of Aldo, >> where Lemon is used for the wider context of the model created by >> the group and OntoLex used for this specific "core" part of the >> model. Thus this core model would be "Lemon OntoLex" and the modules >> would take names such as "Lemon Syntax", "Lemon Metadata" (or "Lemon >> Lime") >> >> Regards, >> John >> >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Alessandro Oltramari >> <aoltrama@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >> >> As mentioned in a previous message, I agree with Guido and Gil's >> stance. >> Apologies for not calling in today. >> Best, >> >> Alessandro >> >> On Sep 13, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Gil FRANCOPOULO wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> I agree with Guido. >> >> >> The new model is broader, defined with different people, under a >> different administrative umbrella, so this is different. >> >> >> Using the name "lemon" is confusing. >> >> >> In the future, if somebody says "lemon", we need to ask: what >> "lemon" are you talking about ? The old one or the new one. >> >> >> Using the term "ontolex", means a fresh and clean start, for new >> adventures... >> >> >> Best, >> >> Gil Francopoulo >> >>> Message du 13/09/13 14:45 >>> De : "Guido Vetere" >>> A : "public-ontolex@w3.org" >>> Copie à : "Philipp Cimiano" , "Guadalupe Aguado de Cea" , >> johnmccrae@gmail.com >>> Objet : Re: ontolex telco tomorrow 15:00 CET >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> although, as Shakespeare, said "a rose by any other name would >> smell as sweet", I think that names matter. I think that keeping >> 'lemon' (or a variant) would suggest that the work we are doing is >> basically a follow-on of the Lemon initiative, which, at the time >> the group has been established, was not the case, at least in my >> understanding. Hence, I think that keeping the original 'ontolex' >> name is a better option. >>> >>> I'm unable to attend the call this evening, sorry about that. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Guido Vetere >>> Manager, Center for Advanced Studies IBM Italia >>> _________________________________________________ >>> Rome Trento >>> Via Sciangai 53 Via Sommarive 18 >>> 00144 Roma, Italy 38123 Povo in Trento >>> +39 (0)6 59662137 [1] >>> >>> Mobile: +39 3357454658 [2] >>> _________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >> >> JOHN MCCRAE >>> Sent by: johnmccrae@gmail.com >> >>> 13/09/2013 11:43 >> >> To Guadalupe Aguado de Cea >> cc Philipp Cimiano , "public-ontolex@w3.org" >> Subject Re: ontolex telco tomorrow 15:00 CET >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I apologise I will also not be able to attend as I am travelling >> today. I wanted to make a quick couple of points about the naming of >> the model. >>> >>> Firstly, the model is not drastically new in fact in terms of >> URIs 15 of the properties are exactly the same as they are in the >> original _lemon_ core where as only 9 are new introductions, and 4 >> are not carried over from the ontolex core (although these should be >> included in modules). >>> >>> Also, I am here at RANLP and _lemon_ has been mentioned in >> several talks including one of the keynotes, at tutorials and many >> times in the NLP&LOD workshop. Many people who I talked to about the >> naming of the model seemed not keen accept a change of name. >>> >>> For these two reasons I feel that we really should to keep lemon >> in the name but would be happy with Lemon2 or W3C-Lemon as a name >>> >>> Regards, >>> John >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Guadalupe Aguado de Cea >> <guadalupe.aguado@upm.es> wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I won't be able to join the telco as I have a meeting in another >> town. >>> As for the name of the model, the last 2 suggestions proposed by >> Phillipp and Aldo: lemon2, and lemon-W3C could be Ok, though I'm >> more inclined to the first one, lemon2. Exactly for the reasons >> given by Philipp. >>> >>> I know that Elena & Jorge will attend the telco, so they'll tell >> me about the commitments and the modules.. >>> Best regards >>> >>> Lupe >>> >>> El 12/09/2013 14:38, Philipp Cimiano escribió: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> this is a gentle reminder that we will have our regular >> ontolex telco tomorrow Friday at the regular time. >>> >>> See access details here: >> > http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2013.13.09,_15-16_pm_CET >> [3] >>> >>> The agenda from my side is as follows: >>> >>> 1) Modules: decide which modules need to be developed and which >> use cases will drive them, fix responsibles for module development >>> 2) Name of the model: discuss different points of view >>> 3) Linking: what to link to >>> >>> I look forward to talking to you all on Friday. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Philipp. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Guadalupe Aguado de Cea >>> Departamento de Lingüística Aplicada >>> Miembro del Ontology Engineering Group -OEG >>> Facultad de Informática >>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>> Campus de Montegancedo, sn >>> 28660, Boadilla del Monte, Spain >>> >>> Home page: www.oeg-upm.net [4] >>> e-mail: guadalupe.aguado@upm.es >>> Telef.: 34-91-3367415 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> IBM Italia S.p..A. >> >>> Sede Legale: Circonvallazione Idroscalo - 20090 Segrate (MI) >>> Cap. Soc. euro 347.256.998,80 >>> C. F. e Reg. Imprese MI 01442240030 - Partita IVA 10914660153 >>> Società con unico azionista >>> Società soggetta all’attività di direzione e coordinamento di >> International Business Machines Corporation >>> >>> (Salvo che sia diversamente indicato sopra / Unless stated >> otherwise above) > > ALESSANDRO OLTRAMARI > Research Associate > Psychology Department, Carnegie Mellon University > 5000 Forbes Avenue, Pittsburgh PA 15213 > Tel.: +1-412-268-6284 [5] Fax.: +1-412-268-2798 [6] Mobile: > +1-412-689-1514 [7] > > Homepage: http://fms.psy.cmu.edu/member/aoltrama/ [8] > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandrooltramari [9] > Twitter/Skype: oltramale > > "There’s no such thing as the unknown– only things temporarily > hidden, temporarily not understood.” [Capt. J.T. Kirk] > "To dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. Not to dare is to lose > oneself." [S. Kierkegaard] > > -- > Francis Bond <http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/fcbond/ [10]> > Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies > Nanyang Technological University > > -- > > Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano > > Phone: +49 521 106 12249 > Fax: +49 521 106 12412 > Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de > > Forschungsbau Intelligente Systeme (FBIIS) > Raum 2.307 > Universität Bielefeld > Inspiration 1 > 33619 Bielefeld > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] tel:%2B39%20%280%296%2059662137 > [2] tel:%2B39%203357454658 > [3] > http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2013.13.09,_15-16_pm_CET > [4] http://www.oeg-upm.net/ > [5] tel:%2B1-412-268-6284 > [6] tel:%2B1-412-268-2798 > [7] tel:%2B1-412-689-1514 > [8] http://fms.psy.cmu.edu/member/aoltrama/ > [9] http://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandrooltramari > [10] http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/fcbond/ -- Felix Sasaki DFKI / W3C Fellow
Received on Tuesday, 17 September 2013 07:25:31 UTC