[minutes] March 20 meeting


The minutes of our March 20th meeting are available at:

and copied as text below.


                        Web & Networks IG meeting

20 March 2024

    [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

       [3] https://www.w3.org/2024/03/20-web-networks-irc


           Chris_Needham, ChrisNeedham, DanD, Dapeng, Dom, Eric,
           Larry_Zhao, PiersOHanlon, Robin, Song, Sudeep


           DanD, Song, Sudeep

           cpn, dom


     1. [4]New charter
     2. [5]Cloud Edge Client Coordination
     3. [6]Other topics for consideration by the IG
     4. [7]Next meeting

Meeting minutes


   New charter

    Sudeep: we're operating under a new charter, set to last for 2

    [round of intros]

    [slide 4]

    Sudeep: so far we covered 3 workstreams: edge coputing, network
    quality monitoring and emulation tools and traces
    … we've seen lots of interest on edge computing and continued
    interest on monitoring

    [slide 5]

    Sudeep: in our new charter, the scope remains mostly the same
    with additional focus on edge
    … client-edge cloud coordination was added as a key topic,
    following up on our draft note about related use cases
    … in terms of emerging use cases that are driving interest:
    offloading capabilities, new traffic patterns with increases in
    uplink usage, emergence of edge networks, and impact of 6G & AI
    … how will these impact the end to end user experience and what
    developers can accomplish ?

    [slide 6]

    Sudeep: given the many intersections, we're considering to
    schedule regular, the Chairs would like to suggest regular
    monthly meetings to make progress

    Eric: re hints from apps to the network and vice-versa, does it
    cover the ability of app & networks about hardware capabilities
    (e.g. on-device accelerators)

    DanD: it can be as broad or narrow as we want; what's on the
    table at the BOF in IETF is to address a handful issues with
    video streaming, driven by needs from Meta and YouTube to
    self-police their traffic to reduce it on the wire
    … because of restrictions some mobile subscribers - they want
    to set the adaptive bitrate to adapt to these subscription
    … to optimize the user experience on their end



    Eric: with the rise of AI workloads, getting hints on the
    device capabilities to the app and network sounds increasingly

    [9]SCONE-PROTOCL Charter Proposal


   Cloud Edge Client Coordination

    Song: during TPAC we discussed the creation of a dedicated CG
    … I've been working on a draft scope for such a group with Max
    and Larry

    [10]Client-Edge-Cloud coordination Use Cases and Requirements

      [10] https://www.w3.org/TR/edge-cloud-reqs/

    Song: the CG would start from the use cases to develop a
    proposal for offloading
    … the CG could develop requirements, a proposed architecture
    for network offloading, and allows coordination with other W3C
    groups (Web & Networks, WebPerf, WebRTC)
    … we'll publish an initial draft soon

    Max: ["The mission of this group is to provide mechanism and
    interfaces between Central Edge, Edge Cloud and Client for
    computing work load offlaoding and orchestration. the typical
    use cases include AI generation, cloud gaming, streaming
    acceleration, etc. The goal is to design a set of new APIs and
    mechanism that enable computing workload offloading and
    orchestration between Central Cloud, Edge-Cloud and Client. It
    should leverage existing mechanisms

    as much as possible and should coordinate with related W3C
    working groups and other SDOs and open source community if

    Max: proposed name would be "cloud edge client coordination CG"


    Max: proposed short name would be "cloudedgecoord"
    … comments are welcome

    Dom: suggest making sure use cases and req continues in the IG
    … the note has 2 architectures, would the CG focus on both or
    only one of them?
    … the name could be improved

    Song: makes sense

    Chris: let's iterate on the proposal in github

    Max: re which architecture in the CG, from my perspective, we
    should be open to any solution with more detailed research
    before picking one or several ones
    … and +1 on iterating on the name and other aspects in github

    Sudeep: an additional input: in the IG we would focus on
    networking factors; in the CG, would this expand to
    device/compute/storage capabilities?
    … including discovery

    Song: exposing capabilities may be difficult given the sandox
    and security constraints, but this could be part of what the CG
    can discuss

    Sudeep: so let's upload this on github to iterate

    Song: will do

   Other topics for consideration by the IG

    [slide 7]

    Dom: would it be interesting to hear more about IPVM which
    Robin alluded to?

    Robin: I wouldn't be the right person to present on this, but
    would be happy to get that presented
    … by a proper person

    Eric: +1 to that

    Robin: I'll look into it

    DanD: if the SCONE-PROTOCL proposal gets traction, we should
    definitely look at how it should be exposed at the Web layer

    DanD: I can arrange a presentation of the work after the BoF

    ChrisN: we're also interested in seeing how that proposal
    … liaisons with other organizations is also something worth
    investing in - 3GPP is looking into advanced media delivery (a
    video-centric use case)
    … which intersects with work in the Media WG for streaming apps
    … so a liaison with that particular work item in 3GPP sounds
    particularly relevant

    Sudeep: please send more details

    Sudeep: Dom, anything related to your report on AI on the web?

    Dom: It's higher level, but there are some questions, e.g.,
    role of hybrid models where parts run on the client and some in
    the network
    … Has interesting privacy and security properties, but hybrid
    usages are very network dependent
    … So I can see some intersections, e.g., with the cloud-edge
    … The paper really raises challenges that need solutions, but
    not sure yet on the intersection here

    Sudeep: Happy to bring this up as a topic here

    Eric: Another thing: it's cost-prohibitive to run AI workloads
    in the cloud, so downloading is a trend that's anticipated
    … Microsoft put out a white paper, a 1 bit LLM, if they can get
    to that, more AI workloads may run on handsets and devices
    … Today, most investment is in LLM in the cloud, but you'll
    have to start moving things to the edge and to devices. A lot
    of that falls in scope for this group

    Sudeep: There's a lot of scope there. If you know anyone
    working on these topics, please let them know, we can schedule
    them in
    … I'll share the links with you
    … Max and Song will prepare the CG charter, I'll connect with

   Next meeting

    Sudeep: I suggest we meet in one month. I'll arrange a time


Received on Wednesday, 20 March 2024 17:41:23 UTC