[minutes] Sep 4 Web & Networks Interest Group meeting


Here are the minutes of our Web & Networks IG teleconference held today:

They're copied as text below.


                    Web & Networks IG teleconference

04 Sep 2019




          Dom, DanD, Sudeep, Song, YajunChen, Xiaowei, Picky,
          Jonas_Svennebring, Chris_Needham, Jon_Devlin, Zoltan_Kis


          Sudeep, DanD, Song

          cpn, dom


     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]TPAC Agenda
         2. [5]Liaisons
         3. [6]Use case: Network Link Performance Prediction
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     * [8]Summary of Resolutions

   Sudeep: [reviewing agenda]

   ... we will present the TPAC agenda on which we're seeking

   ... we will then discuss a use case, with a particular
   illustration from an Intel team, who will also give a more
   in-depth presentation during TPAC

TPAC Agenda

   Dan: TPAC is very close - it's important to focus on the topics
   we're trying to cover

   ... we will be meeting on Tuesday from 8:30am to 5pm

   ... we would start at 8:30 with logistics, intros, some
   background and concrete references that Dom will be presenting

   ... then we'll have a break - always great opportunity for
   informal discussions during TPAC

   ... then we'll dive into guiding principles for the "hint
   framework" - going into examples and spending some time
   analyzing what worked and doesn't

   ... then Song will cover an update on liaisons

   ... then lunch, after which we'll get our guest speaker session
   with an Intel team presenting a more detailed explanation of
   the solutions they've been working on

   ... that could form the basis for an API

   ... after the afternoon break, we have more use cases review -
   we're looking for input and feedback from participants on how
   to drive this effectively

   ... we will have many opportunities to touch upon use cases
   throughout the day, but we want to take advantage of the F2F to
   go into more details in these use cases

   ... we will have IG members, observers - it's a good
   opportunity for a dialog

   <cpn> scribenick: cpn

   Dom: We have 50 observers registered, which is a good sign, but
   unlikely they'll all come. We'd need to take into account the
   size of the group

   Dan: We can use sticky notes to gather ideas for discussion.
   Then we can combine the ideas, or work from the prepared
   agenda. We should be open to suggestions from members and
   ... It's important to have a bi-directional communication, not
   just have presentations

   <dom> scribenick: dom

   cpn: in the Media & Entertainment IG, we've dedicated to a
   "look-ahead" session for new use cases & requirements
   ... one of the tools that we will be using is a flipchart to
   keep track of ideas as they emerge
   ... inviting people to share their thoughts on unaddressed use
   ... it is a challenge - not everybody has something to
   contribute, many people will be observing rather than
   ... in that situation, it's up to the chairs of the group to
   really to come with your own ideas to seed the conversation

   Dan: agree that we'll need to stimulate the dialog
   ... the idea of having sticky notes to keep track of ideas as
   they come up would be useful
   ... even if we can't review them all
   ... we'll have to make sure we have the right logistics
   ... I really want this to be a two-way communications
   ... although I expect it will be hard to break the ice

   Sudeep: assuming we identify new requirements out of this
   ... would it make sense to schedule a follow-on breakout
   session to look at how to addressing that requirement
   ... q-
   ... to get feedback on what we would have identified

   cpn: I would strongly recommend that you do that
   ... I hope that the session grid will have space
   ... we've done that often with the Media & Entertainment IG

   Dan: For the Wednesday session, the door is open for ideas
   ... this year the suggestion for sessions are collected ahead
   of time
   ... we could place a stakeholder
   ... Getting back to the agenda, I think it's worth injecting a
   5-10 minutes early in the morning to explain this process

   Sudeep: we will have remote participation enabled for TPAC if
   you can't make it to the meeting

   DanD: on another note: lunch is a good opportunity for informal


   [Presenting slides: Status in liaison organizations and topics
   for TPAC]

   Song: first, some background on existing activity in W3C
   ... Network information API is defined in the WICG
   ... last updated last February
   ... The API enables Web apps to access info about the network
   status (e.g. wifi, wirless, bluetooth connection)
   ... Second, WebXR - discussed in the Immersive Web WG
   ... pretty active ongoing work
   ... WebRTC is one of the most important WG in the org, nearly
   ... Web of Things Architecture, in CR, last modified in May -
   IoT has strong links to networking
   ... In terms of candidate items for TPAC
   ... 5G Network Slicing - network slicing divides networks in
   multiple virtual networks based on app requirements
   ... we're trying to establish a liaison with the relevant group
   ... Edge computing enables integrating network, computing,
   storage in nodes
   ... operators have developed their own edge computing APIs
   ... China Mobile has a Web MEC API proposal with several
   ... (face detection, WoT, Edge caching for UHD service)
   ... it works with MECNodeService to which one can register and
   then send requests
   ... Because Edge Computing is pretty important for apps in new
   networks (e.g. 5G), some operators have defined their own APIs
   ... we're looking at liaisons to ETSI & 3GPP who have defined
   set of APIs (incl location, bandwidth management, radio
   ... Real-time network adoption is another interesting area of
   ... based on mobile throughput guidance information
   ... Cloud gaming needs further thinking
   ... Best network selection - how to determine which link to use
   - related to network slicing

   dom: will you give a more in-depth presentation on Web MEC?

   Song: this is still a very early stage proposal
   ... we're still working on modifying it - once we're done, we
   will be able to share more

   Picky: on your slide on MEC - how does this intersect with 5G
   data plans

   Song: let's revisit that offline

Use case: Network Link Performance Prediction

   [9]Network Link Performance Prediction


   Sudeep: Jonas and Jon are IG participants from Intel
   ... they've been working on topics that are overlapping with
   some of our discussions esp around hints
   ... they'll give us some introduction to their work to
   stimulate our discussions

   Jonas: we will be in TPAC
   ... The work was stimulated by 5G
   ... 5G brings better performance, but also more variation
   within networks
   ... as we're moving towards edge compute, this creates also
   more variation
   ... edge can mean many different things which induce many
   different behaviors
   ... Networks are "best effort" today - we have been interested
   in seeing how we can make them more deterministic and to better
   inform app of their network environment
   ... We've been investigating network link performance
   prediction - not in a Web-specific context
   ... one starting point is that we don't want to control apps -
   hence the "hints" approach that matched what has been discussed
   in the IG
   ... we're looking both at current and future link performance
   ... along a number of parameters: bandwidth, latency, cell load
   and more
   ... a typical example where this is relevant: if you're driving
   your car, you may going between a macro cell with low load then
   high load and back to low
   ... a network-aware app could pre-fetch data to take these
   expected changes into account
   ... e.g. in a video streaming context
   ... the same could be applied to coverage gaps
   ... We've also looking at the challenge of mmWave which have
   very small coverage and very high throughput
   ... there are other cases where this applies, but these are the
   key areas
   ... We're making these links prediction as a service on the
   ... it's transparent from a client/service perspective,
   available to both
   ... the point here is that it should be agnostic to cloud or
   ... we're also not touching the data streams itself
   ... it would typically deployed in the operators network and
   then fetched from client or server
   ... in TPAC we will dive in more details in terms of the
   predictions are generated, and how they could be exposed in Web
   apps, in browsers, in servers
   ... We have a number of use cases that illustrate how the
   predictions could be used
   ... A simple case is media streaming - you need to look at the
   value add across the various network stakeholders
   ... There is a benefit here to the end user, to the content
   provider and to the operator
   ... in media streaming, this means less buffer delays for
   real-time media
   ... for non-real time streams, it helps reduce the amount of
   data transmission in the network
   ... we will cover these additional use cases in TPAC as well
   ... We're very interested in getting feedback and reactions

   dom: very exciting! looking forward to hear more at TPAC

   sudeep: note relationship to the "smart offline download" use

   dom: agreed - the notion of "gap coverage" can be well related
   to the notion of cost/cell load

   jonas: we're looking at usage behaviors to inform our research
   on utilizing this

   sudeep: there will also be a demo during TPAC?

   jonas: one keep example is media streaming; next will be cloud
   gaming which is more driven by server-side prediction
   ... we will be present a cloud-gaming set up to show the
   benefits of link prediction
   ... we will show also media streaming with and without link

   cpn: where will the demos be?

   sudeep: there is demo slot on Wednesday

   cpn: I'll mention it to the Media IG

   Sudeep: the slides that were presented are available on github
   - the discussion can continue there
   ... we will continue this discussion at TPAC
   ... we will share the Webex details for the meeting there

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Received on Wednesday, 4 September 2019 15:43:55 UTC