Re: Setting milestones (Re: marathon)

There is a crucial piece of N3 for the specification of the Solid Protocol
more specifically at https://solidproject.org/TR/protocol#writing-resources

It uses cited formulae with quickvars (?x), so it is beyond N3-Lite
but it actually is an excellent and practical use case.

That said, EYE suffers to roundtrip (with --pass) the example in
https://solidproject.org/TR/protocol#writing-resources
The n3p code at
https://github.com/josd/n3p/blob/33dde4db84c48467cd9e188744e8f34672675c7e/examples/patch.n3p
roundtrips fine at
https://github.com/josd/n3p/blob/33dde4db84c48467cd9e188744e8f34672675c7e/result.n3p#L103

jos

-- https://josd.github.io


On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 12:43 PM Pierre-Antoine Champin <
pierre-antoine@w3.org> wrote:

>
> On 04/04/2022 09:40, Miel Vander Sande wrote:
>
> Hi Jos, all
>
> Thanks for running this marathon; I think we all very much appreciate EYE
> and the updates that it got because of this.
>
> +42 :-)
>
> I'm clearly one of the 33 dormant members of this group, mainly because
> I'm really unqualified to partake in the discussions (I see N3 as a tool,
> unwary of the insides), but may I ask:
> after 42 months, is there a group report in sight? Is there a milestone
> planned?
>
> That's a fair question, and we acknowledged during the call last week
> that, unfortunately, we are not there yet. Defining a clean definition of
> N3's semantics is getting in the way, and unfortunately eating a lot of our
> bandwidth. I probably have my share of responsibility in that latter point,
> and I apologize for it.
>
> Here is an idea that is maybe silly, but maybe can help us make progress :
> we could focus, for a while, on a strict subset of the N3 language (coined
> e.g. N3-Lite), and try to get a self-sufficient CG report on that subset.
> Then we could try to grow this subset (possibly in several incremental
> steps) until we cover N3 entirely.
>
> The subset I have in mind is the following (but that's open for
> discussion):
>
> - quoted graphs are disallowed, expect as the head or body of rules
> - rules are not encoded as triples, but handled at their own level
> - quickvars (?x) are only allowed in rules
> - no explicit quantification
>
> I think that defining the semantics of this subset should be relatively
> easy (compared to full N3), and that it could be done in such a way that
> all existing N3 implementation already comply with the semantics.  We would
> therefore have a first level of interoperabilty formally specified.
>
> Focusing on N3-lite, we could also come back to our work on builtins
> (although the most complex ones, such as log:semantics, log:includes, or
> log:forAll would not be part of N3-lite).
>
> I know that this is reminiscent of the different profiles of OWL, which
> some people in this group don't quite like. Maybe to avoid this issue could
> we decide that N3-Lite needs to disappear once N3 "full" is properly
> specified. In any case, I think that N3-Lite could be a useful stepping
> stone.
>
> And is there anything non-expert community members can do to help?
>
> Hopefully, the discussions on N3-Lite will be more accessible, and allow
> for a wider group to engage. At least, that's one of the goal of this
> proposal.
>
>   pa
>
>
> Best,
>
> Miel
>
> Op ma 4 apr. 2022 om 02:01 schreef Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This group started about 42 months ago
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-n3-dev/2018Nov/
>> and for me it really feels like a marathon coming to an end.
>> During this past 42 months we had lengthy discussions
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A3HAUhjaVnnJ6yVbFAvIBRJQjUY9aFlQ2_bGxkD0mnE/edit
>> and as a result for the eye reasoner there were 244 releases
>> https://github.com/josd/eye/blob/master/RELEASE
>>
>> For me what really remains is n3p which is the eye intermediate p-code
>> and from now on
>> I will focus on https://github.com/josd/n3p as a
>> https://knows.idlab.ugent.be/team/ member
>> and stay quiet in this N3 community group like most of the other 33
>> members.
>>
>> Thanks and kind regards,
>> Jos
>>
>> -- https://josd.github.io
>>
>